Is Insteon still a safe bet?

[jgwinner]

You're the one complaining that you went to the smarthome website and the timer switch wasnt there.

Sure - it was a useful thing and they worked well, without any requirement for external devices to make it work, which reduces reliability. But yea, products change. I can still gripe about it. It sounded like you expected 8 year old products to fail. That's WAY too short of an MTBF.

But really, I'm complaining that NOTHING is available, and hasn't been for a while.

Why would you throw something away thats working and you use?

Because I have 3-4 switches that have failed.

Sure, I get maintenance, but it seems HIGH.

Buttons get 'mushy' after a while and just won't turn off or turn on. A lot of these I have on motion sensors, so it's not too irritating, but I'm looking at a not-insignificant cost to fix everything.

No, there are no other switches with a lower cost of ownership.

That surprises me.

Why did you switch to Lutron then, just general availability?

== John ==

[lilyoyo1]

Sure - it was a useful thing and they worked well, without any requirement for external devices to make it work, which reduces reliability. But yea, products change. I can still gripe about it. It sounded like you expected 8 year old products to fail. That's WAY too short of an MTBF.

But really, I'm complaining that NOTHING is available, and hasn't been for a while.



Because I have 3-4 switches that have failed.

Sure, I get maintenance, but it seems HIGH.

Buttons get 'mushy' after a while and just won't turn off or turn on. A lot of these I have on motion sensors, so it's not too irritating, but I'm looking at a not-insignificant cost to fix everything.



That surprises me.

Why did you switch to Lutron then, just general availability?

== John ==

Newer insteon devices are much better than older devices in regards to quality. With that said, you'll always run into more issues the less something costs simply because they cant use higher quality parts in the device without raising the costs. Its because of that reason, I am not surprised if a device dies within 8 years. Think about how many parts fail on a car in 8 years. How many appliances,tvs, and computers are replaced or repaired in 8 years. I just dont expect a single switch to achieve longevity that other products do not achieve on their own either.
There are different ways to calculate cost of ownership. For me, I look at what something can do and what it takes to run it successfully. For example, a house full of wifi based devices can allow someone to turn their house into a smarthome. Those switches can be anywhere for 10-50 dollars each. However, you'll most likely need a high end router or enterprise equipment to properly manage your devices depending on the size of your home and number of devices in addition to the time it takes to set things up to run properly.

Ditto with zwave. It takes 2x the time to configure a zwave setup than it does an insteon setup (and it still falls short). So the time to get things working is calculated into that since time is money for me.

I'm not switching to Lutron. Just expanding my options. Everyone is experiencing shortages including Lutron. I'll still use Control 4 for full installs. For me, Ra3 works because there are ways to have uniformity throughout the home without needing to automate everything (not everyone wants to automate every switch in the house). This allows me to save the client money while still making something.

[jgwinner]

I disagree, every single timer switch has now failed, the last one just went, and I have another 2-3 regular paddle switches that won't turn on or off except remotely. I've replaced a LOT of switches.

Car parts are in a much, much more demanding environment - weather, vibration, heat, etc.

MTBF of electronic parts, including semi-conductors, are nowhere near as low as what we're talking about.

It's VERY hit or miss. I'll grant you some of the newer Insteon parts are better, but I don't expect to replace EVERY PART on a car every 8 years. My Mercedes is a 2005, and my Toyota 4Runner is a 1988. Guess how often I've replaced EVERY part on them? Heck, my deceased Dad's truck that I inherited is a 2015 and I have yet to replace a single thing on it.

100% failure rate of timers. 50%-60% of my 6 way switches.

If I can get some RA3's, I'll look at those. Honestly, I don't like the look of the Caseta switches, but the RA3's have significantly better aesthetics.

I have a ReFi home inspection Tuesday. They hate it when bare wires stick out of the wall, but that's all I can do right now.

== John ==

[BLH]

The old early run SwitcLink modules had a tact switch issue. Remotely fine but paddles pushed the switch and the clicked but did no make an electrical connection.
For a certain known run with possible issues. We got a seven year warranty.

[lilyoyo1]

I disagree, every single timer switch has now failed, the last one just went, and I have another 2-3 regular paddle switches that won't turn on or off except remotely. I've replaced a LOT of switches.

Car parts are in a much, much more demanding environment - weather, vibration, heat, etc.

MTBF of electronic parts, including semi-conductors, are nowhere near as low as what we're talking about.

It's VERY hit or miss. I'll grant you some of the newer Insteon parts are better, but I don't expect to replace EVERY PART on a car every 8 years. My Mercedes is a 2005, and my Toyota 4Runner is a 1988. Guess how often I've replaced EVERY part on them? Heck, my deceased Dad's truck that I inherited is a 2015 and I have yet to replace a single thing on it.

100% failure rate of timers. 50%-60% of my 6 way switches.

If I can get some RA3's, I'll look at those. Honestly, I don't like the look of the Caseta switches, but the RA3's have significantly better aesthetics.

I have a ReFi home inspection Tuesday. They hate it when bare wires stick out of the wall, but that's all I can do right now.

== John ==

You're talking about older devices when I stated newer devices are much better quality wise. While switches may not be outside exposed to the elements, house wiring is still a tough devices. Motors starting and stopping, Power surges and power sags (which is actually worse),etc. Unfortunately older devices do not have the additional protections that newer devices have.

Its great that you havent had to replace a single part on any vehicle you've owned. There are millions of others that have. My experience is different. In 13 years of different insteon devices, Ive replaced maybe 3 bad ones. This is line with other technologies i've used such as different hue products and zwave switches.

The only difference with insteon and repairing other things is us. Because we spend 10's of thousands on our car, we will repair it to keep running. An insteon switch is 50 bucks. If it goes bad it gets replaced. The fact that we have 30+ devices only amplifies this as multiple singular devices can now go bad. There are people who will replace bad components on their insteon devices and keep them in service for many more years afterwards. Most others will simply replace which amplifies their discontent.

[jgwinner]

Its great that you havent had to replace a single part on any vehicle you've owned. There are millions of others that have

That's not what I said. I said I haven't had to replace EVERY part.

I've had to replace EVERY timer, and now, just last weekend, every keypad. Always just out of warranty.

If it goes bad it gets replaced.

I hear you, but nothing is available

== John ==

[rudrisazz]

I agree about the communication. I have been waiting for Micro On/Off switch adapters to come back in stock for quite a while. Mobdro