Need help wiring On/Off Micro Module to motion flood light

[bibbt]

This is my first request for help so please be gentle. I've searched the forum and can't find what I am looking for. Basically I am trying to replicate the function of the old x10 PR511 motion light with Insteon components.

I am trying to use an On/Off Micro Module with a motion sensor flood light and can't get it to work right. I can either get motion control or Insteon module control but not both. Hopefully someone here can help me. I would like to be able to control the flood light with the Insteon phone app or a Insteon wall switch but also retain the normal timed function of the motion sensor. I would also like for a main motion light to be able to send a on/off command to additional flood lights that would have a Micro Module or a Insteon wall switch controlling them. The motion sensor is a typical 120V with black, white and red wire. It is NOT the Dual Brite type. I have read there is a way to use the yellow sense wire on the module to turn the flood light on when the sensor detects movement. Is there a schematic somewhere that shows how to wire Micro Module with a motion sensor?

[BLH]

Maybe but it depends on the signal from the Red wire.
If the Red wire is designed to turn a 120VAC light ON and Off.
With a 120V signal and it is from a relay not a triac driving the light.
The 120VAC into the Yellow wire should be able to control the Micro-Module.
If the signal is from a triac it may keep the yellow wire thinking the signal is On all the time. As it is a high impedance input.

https://forum.insteon.com/forum/main...-on-off-module

[BLH]

If you have not looked yet or don't have one yet.
Download the full users manual for the Micro Module model you are using.
It shows a diagram on how to use the Yellow wire for 120VVAC signal use.

[paulbates]

Here's how I recently did something similar, except I was automating a dusk timer, not a motion sensor, but the wiring would be the same. You'll want to make sure that the micro module is in Latching mode, which is how it comes out of the box. But look at the options to be sure
PXL_20231106_165815940~2_Original.jpg

[bibbt]

Thank you BLH and Paulbates for the fast reply. I really appreciate it. I downloaded the owners manual as suggested and I noticed some differences in the on/off Micro Module that I have compared to the one used in the diagrams/schematics. Manual indicates it was written in 2014. That's a long time ago. Please chime in and let me know if this is creating a problem with what I am trying to do.

My module has an unmarked terminal next to the "Line" terminal. Model# of my module is 2443-222. What is that unmarked terminal for? On the very first page of the manual, It shows photos of module differences depending on country/market. It also indicates Micro Modules for different countries carry different model numbers. My module terminals are labeled like a module for EU/AUS/NZ but it it is labeled as a US/North American part#. My module has a 2023 manufacturing date so it is pretty new. Is any of this something I should be concerned about? Has this product evolved and the owners manual just needs to be updated? If someone could educate me on this I would appreciate it.

Also, a question about the Director app for iPhone. What type of device does Insteon classify the Micro Modules as? In the past, these were known as a "wire in device" I don't see that option in the app. Closest I see is "Wall Switch" or "Other". Right now I am using "other" and I see very limited options in configuring the module to do useful things. I see no way to set the module up as a responder or commander. Am I missing something? Do I need to delete the module from the app and add it again as a wall switch ? Or something else?


Here are some things I checked after reading the replies.

My module doesn't match the one in the photo provided by Paulbates. His has 2 "L1 Load Terminals"

So in testing, I determined the my module is indeed in "Latching Mode" as indicated with 3 chirps after pushing the "Set" button.

I'm pretty sure the 3 wire motion sensor I am using has a Triac. I don't hear a mechanical relay clicking when the sensor senses movement. Is that a reliable, non scientific way to tell how it switches? It appears most of the motion sensors made now use a Triac. Finding new ones that use a relay might be a challenge.

So.... all this could be done easier with the current Insteon Wireless Motion Sensor #2844-222. Here are the limitations that keep me from going that route. 1. the current sensor isn't weatherproof, 2. It has poor long distance performance due to it being designed for indoor use, 3. It is powered by a battery that will need to be replaced every 6-12 months.


I'm going to make sure the yellow sense wire on my module functions correctly by making a test circuit exactly like the diagram shown for using the module with a standard SPST toggle/wall switch. This will rule out the possibility of my modules yellow sense circuit being defective.


Please let me know if you have any wisdom to add. Thanks, Bibb in San Antonio

[BLH]

I saw a quick guide (don't know if is is the presently sold ones).
Says second L1 Output terminal and depended on region it was sold in.
It would be a second output and my thoughts is in parallel with the first L1 output. Just use the L1 output on yours and ignore the second one if not marked.
I found a internal photo of the board. There is a run between the two posts. So it should be a second L1 Output terminal.
I will check back after checking all my archived manuals and see if I find something else out.
Yes the presently sold Motion Sensor uses a 3V CR123 cell but can also be run by an external 5V wall wart with small USB connector.
Not much help as you said not designed for a outdoor environment.
Can't say about a Director program and what it interfaces with.
I have a UDI ISY994i controller. That for future users a eisy as the ISY994i is now discontinued.

[bibbt]

So BLH was right about my problem. I determined that the Lowes brand motion sensor I was using was not playing well with the yellow sense wire on my on/off Micro Module. I had a old motion sensor in a pile of parts that works perfectly. I suspect it is a Heath-Zenith but it isn't marked. It definitely switches the load with a relay. It makes a nice audible clunk when the sensor senses movement. Via Director app for iPhone, I an able to turn the light on or off independent of the motion sensor and the day/night photocell. The timed motion circuit still works as normal. Now I need to find 3-4 more of the old type motion sensors to go with my other flood lights. I will follow up with some photos of exactly of how I have everything wired up. I really appreciate the help.
Bibb in San Antonio

[BLH]

I am glad you got your first flood light setup working.
Will be nice to see your setup photos when available.
About the manuals date. If no major changes where made. There may have been no need for a newer one.
The fact that they went through two companies owning the Insteon line. Before the present owners of company employees took over. May also play into this.
I know the new added I3 line looks like a good improvement.

[paulbates]

Couple of thoughts
- I used several of the old motion sensors at my previous house. They were outside in the open for 5+ years. They are not idea though, and I get doing it hardwired.... it needs to work 100% and that's why I went hard wired with my dusk sensor.

- I'm not sure why your module looks different than mine. I ordered that on/off module a month ago. Like BLH, I have a UDI eisy controller, not a hub.. I don't use director.. so our option labels won't line up description wise. If I have to guess, the option is probably "Wall switch".... but it does matter as flaky behavior happens when it wrong. Three chirps sounds right and it's the device. My new dusk sensor is a triac, no sound from it when it triggers, it might be looking for another one or maybe a google search will find it.

Would love to hear how it's turns out

[bibbt]

So here are some photos of my wiring setup for using a on/off Micro Module with a PIR sensor floodlight. I used a very basic and inexpensive Heath-Zenith motion sensor purchased on Amazon for $14. It uses a relay instead of a Triac to switch the load and is working perfectly with my Cree LED PAR 38 lamps. My goal was to use Insteon gear to replicate the function of the old X10 PR511 motion flood lights which have become increasingly troublesome. I assembled 5 of these lights and have them linked to keypads so I can control them independently of the motion sensors if I want. Works perfectly.

Thanks for everyones help,
Bibb in San Antonio,Tx

[BLH]

Thank you for sharing.
Looks very nice.
WAGO Lever Nuts is a nice touch.

[paulbates]

Thanks for sharing and the motivation. I have a similar project and got a motion sensor on amazon too. I'm probably out of decent enough days to disassemble and inspect the old fixtures and see if full time power is there. I can bench test the sensor and micro module though.

[SangakaraMoory]

To achieve the desired functionality of controlling the flood light with both the Insteon phone app or wall switch and retaining the normal timed function of the motion sensor, you'll need to utilize a combination of Insteon devices and wiring configurations.
Components Required:

1. Insteon Micro On/Off Module (2477S)
2. Motion Sensor Flood Light (compatible with 120V motion sensors)
3. Insteon Wall Switch (optional)

Wiring Configuration:

1. Connect the black wire from the motion sensor to the common (COM) terminal on the Micro Module.
2. Connect the white wire from the motion sensor to the load (LOAD) terminal on the Micro Module.
3. Connect the red wire from the motion sensor to the sense (SENSE) terminal on the Micro Module.
4. Connect the black wire from the flood light to the neutral (NEU) terminal on the Micro Module.
5. Connect the white wire from the flood light to the load (LOAD) terminal on the Micro Module.
6. Connect the hot (LINE) wire from your power source to the hot (LINE) terminal on the Micro Module.

Programming for Desired Functionality:

1. Motion Sensor Control:
   • Set the motion sensor to automatically turn on the flood light when motion is detected and turn it off after a predetermined time delay.
2. Insteon App/Wall Switch Control:
   • Pair the Micro Module with your Insteon hub or wall switch.
   • You should now be able to control the flood light remotely using the Insteon app or manually using the wall switch.

Main Motion Light Triggering Additional Flood Lights:

1. Using Insteon Links:
   • Pair the main motion sensor with the additional flood lights using Insteon links.
   • When the main motion sensor detects movement, it will send an on/off command to the additional flood lights, turning them on or off accordingly.
2. Using Insteon Scene:
   • Create an Insteon scene that triggers the additional flood lights when the main motion sensor detects movement.
   • Assign the main motion sensor as the trigger for the scene.
   • Assign the additional flood lights as the actions for the scene.

Remember to consult the user manuals for your specific Insteon devices and follow proper electrical safety precautions when handling wiring.