The AFCI breaker keeps tripping when a wall switch is replaced with an Insteon dimmer switch 2477d. I have been reading articles online indicating that the AFCI breaker that I have (Siemens 15 AM Single Pole 120 volt AFCI) is too sensitive for the Insteon dimmer. Is there a list of Siemens or Murray AFCI breaker that works well with Insteon Dimmer? The breaker needs to be 15 amp single pole.
-
-
There is no available list, this comes down to trial and error to prove it works with Insteon. Please update this thread with your findings as I am sure this will help out someone in the not too distant future.Teken . . . -
Sensitivity is not the issue although it's often blamed. The culprit is home automation signals. AFCI breakers have evolved. If you panel is somewhat older, then a new, albeit costly, breaker may alleviate the problem.Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.Comment
-
That is pretty much one and the same in the big picture. People can split hairs about if its sensitive or the lack there of. Because if a newer / different AFCI doesn't have this issue it must be what?Originally posted by stusviews View Post
The signal is either ignored due to design or its seen, again due to design. Whether people think this is a design flaw is really debatable but the reality is power line communications has never been favored or recommended by any company serious about control of an end device. Power line is used because its pervasive and present in all homes and it does not require rewiring of the home generally.
Not with standing not having a neutral etc.
People have to understand the limitations and accept there will be trade offs. When power line Ethernet came on the scene it was a complete and utter fail. But as testing, refinements, and technology made head way it actually worked!
OP: Realize that the maker of the device had no care or consideration that you wanted to use Insteon or any other related power line technology. Their only goal was to produce a device that would protect you and the homes electrical wiring against a fault.
Shop around and report back success / failure in the product that solves the issue.
Teken . . .Comment
-
It's discouraging to hear that I have to go by trial and error. I spent over $3k for Insteon products merely to find out that the dimmer switches are not compatible with the AFCI breakers. My house was built 2 years ago and I used two 200 amp Siemens Breaker Panels with Copper Bus Bars. The 15 amp breaker that keeps tripping when using Insteon Dimmer switch is Siemens QA115AFC Single Pole 120 volt combination AFCI. These are not old at all.
I found a Manual for 2477D that I uploaded to this thread which listed two breakers that Insteon recommended. See the bottom of page 14. I am wondering if these breakers have been fully tested with a use of 2477D and proven that these breakers don't trip. If so, do they have an equivalent breaker for Siemens 15 amp single pole AFCI to be used with a Siemens panel? I know that they have Murray 2 pole listed but looking for single pole.
Thank you!
Comment
-
Most circuit breakers fit nearly all load distribution panels. The GE breaker should work.Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.Comment
-
Originally posted by buddhaweb View Post
Yes, a little frustrating and discouraging to find this out when you have installed a dozen switches. Later to find out half the house is dark and you don't know why??
As stated earlier this comes down to the design of the AFCI breaker from the vendor.
You really have no choice but to purchase a few random brands and test.
NOTE: I would highly suggest you install just one and test for a short period of time say seven days. If after seven days all is well you can purchase more and move on. Since AFCI are typically used only for bedrooms you should not have to replace very many.
Keep us all posted as I am sure this will help someone else down the line.Teken . . .Comment
-
Insteon power line commands are not the only ones that can trip AFCI breakers. The old X10 protocol modules can also.
So it is not just Insteon modules that can cause false tripping.Comment
-
We moved into our brand-new house last Labor Day. GE Panel and breakers, including over twenty arc fault breakers. AFCI breakers are no longer "just" bedrooms, but are now code for nearly every living area. Given that my house was nearly dysfunctional with Insteon devices installed everywhere, I chose to replace ALL AFCI breakers with standard ones, and leave it for the future to find a compatible device. My electrician was apologetic at my dilemma, and let me buy breakers at his cost, but of course he had no proven Insteon-compatible AFCI brand to offer. And once I find a good replacement, I'm looking at $1500 in breakers (if I'm lucky). This has me considering an RF-only control system.Comment
-
This is unfortunate to say the least in your particular circumstance. I am however surprised you would remove all of the AFCI from your home which protect the bedrooms? We all know in reality millions of homes have survived just fine with out such high tech devices for ages. But as you're probably aware what you have done is against the NEC and if the house was ever to be reinspected your occupancy permit would be revoked.Originally posted by rockymtnrick View Post
This also impacts your home insurance and makes it void for coverage . . .
The odds of a inspector dropping by to inspect this area is highly unlikely in my mind but needs to be pointed out. It should be noted also that AFCI's have absolutely no relations to what the 2% of us HA enthusiasts wish to do with our homes.
The fact is these devices are provided and installed as a measure of health and safety to the home and its occupants. I like to remind people just because you can buy some widget from a store doesn't mean it should or be used in your home or environment. Also to be fair to Smartlabs their use of power line communication is with in the specified range of what is accepted by those who govern such use.
In the big picture anyone who has ever been serious about automation of their home does so via wired method. It is only the ease of existing powerline that we the general public have adopted it so quickly and easily. Powerline Ethernet along with powerline communications is simply not reliable enough to be used in a situation where 100% uptime and reliability is the goal.
People will need to keep these aspects in mind and really consider what they buy and how it may or may not impact their homes. Those who believe going with Z-Wave is the end all be all. Will be quickly shocked and dissapointed also because it requires the same repeaters to help bridge devices and the current batch of Z-Wave devices lack in range and reliable operation. Never mind the much cheaper Z-Wave devices do not offer true instant status feed back!
Z-Wave Plus is supposed to offer better range, instant status, along with better energy management and operation. But, you pay for that at the till because its a premium product that at this point costs 20-30% more to a comparable Insteon device which offers higher reliability, distance, and instant status updates.
Just my thoughts on that . . .Teken . . .Comment
-
NEC does not arbitrarily add rules. The only purpose for the rules is safety. The may be only one in a million chance that changing the breakers would cause a fire, injury or even death. Do you want to be that one?
If you sell the home years later when the breakers are totally out-of-mind and something catastrophic occurs, you may be held liable.Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.Comment
-
I am sure the OP knows this but for the sake of clarity for others who may be reading this thread in about 2 years. These facts must be made & indicated so a person can follow accepted standards.Originally posted by stusviews View Post
Speaking for myself only this isn't about being a *Safety Nancy* my comments are strickly to make the information available and presented in a way that everyone can benefit from.
Its safe to say most of us have done some silly things with hindsight indicating that *Great Idea* wasn't so great after all!
OP I would encourage you to review the home and where some of the AFCI's could be placed back. If you have small children this could be one of those things that made the difference between life or death.
Teken . . .Comment
Comment