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  • Programming a keypad with detached load.

    I am using Indigo as the primary control software for my system. I can use the send raw insteon command to put my 8 button keypad into detached load mode and can make buttons on other keypad control the load. What I cannot do is set a button on the keypad to control the detached load. Anyone know how to do that?

    Also, if anyone knows any other MacOS compatible software that can handle those links, please let me know.

  • #2
    I'm not sure what you mean. Every load in you home that's not connected to the Keypad load wire is a "detached load."
    Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
    Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

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    • #3
      Normally, the A button on a Keypad Linc controls the connected load. From firmware version 0x41 (I think, although I am sure it works with 0x43 and up), one can detach that load, so that a different button on the Keypad Linc can control it and the A button can control something else. The most obvious reason for doing this would be if one had two entrances to a room that both had Keypad Lincs and one wanted the A button on both to control the same light and the b button to control the same light without wasting the built in load controller.

      What I need to know is how I connect a button other than A to the load controller (called a detached load by their documentation) on the same Keypad Linc.

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      • #4
        You can have a secondary button control the load, but you cannot separate the load button from controlling the load also. Older Keypads prior to Insteon (X10 compatible only) did allow that, but Insteon Keypads do not. The only solution is to use a Micro Module and "waste" the built-in load controller.

        BTW, there was a Beta Keypad that allowed that at one time, but it never went into production.
        Last edited by stusviews; 06-28-2016, 02:48 PM.
        Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
        Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

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        • #5
          Actually, you can. You send 0x20 and 0x1b to detach the load.

          http://cache.insteon.com/developer/2...-042013-en.pdf
          Detach Load Notes:
          • - Detach Load is only supported through software. It cannot be turned on/off from the device.
          • - When Detach Load is turned On, the load will then be moved/controlled by Group 9
          o Link to Group 9 using the SET Button.
          o Link to Group 1 by using the ON or OFF Button. o Link to Buttons A-H using the A-H buttons.


          - Control
          o To control the Group 1 LEDs, simply send the Keypad a Group 1 On/Off
          command
          o To control the other LEDs, use the Extended 2E Set LED Bit Mask command to
          set those LEDs


          of the LEDs when Detach Load is enabled


          - Getting
          o To get the Status of the 8 LEDs (Group 1-8), use the Read Data 2E command and
          the Data 11 byte contains the LED State information.
          o To get the Status of Group 9 (The Load), use the Standard status request
          command Cmd1=19 Cmd2=00

          I can detach the load with no problem, and can attach a button on another Keypad Linc to control it with no problem (because those can be done using Indigo). What I cannot do with Indigo and I cannot figure out how to do is attach another button on the same Keypad Linc to control group 9 (the detached load).


          Last edited by majortom; 06-28-2016, 04:02 PM.

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          • #6
            This may not work with current firmware.

            After the load is detached:
            Tap and hold the button you want to control the load for 10 seconds. The KPL will beep.
            Tap and hold the On button (6-button mode) or A button (8-button mode) for 10 seconds. The KPL will double beep.
            The secondary button will now control the load.
            Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
            Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by stusviews View Post
              This may not work with current firmware.
              That does not work. :-(

              I called SmartHome and was first told by the tech support person that the load cannot be detached, and then when I had her look at the docs, was told I needed to send mail to developer at insteon to get an answer. No response from them yet.

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              • #8
                I'm pretty sure we'll (Indigo developers) have the ability in Indigo 6.1.11 (not yet available) to create the links from the PowerLinc (or other modules) to the detached load on a KeypadLinc:

                http://forums.indigodomo.com/viewtop...120580#p120580

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                • #9
                  The KPL with the detachable load never went into production, so there's no official documentation. You're on your own.
                  Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
                  Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Stu;
                    If that feature never made it to production or was an undocumented feature in a select test run.

                    Even if the proper commands where know and supported by software.
                    Finding a KPL that actually has this feature in firmware and worked. Would be a real gamble?
                    I can see users grumbling now. This #%^ feature does not work in my KPL.
                    Last edited by BLH; 07-27-2016, 05:51 AM.

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                    • #11
                      The feature was specifically programmed. A reset caused the KPL to become a standard KPL and the detachable load ability no longer existed.
                      Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
                      Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank you Stu. For the added information on the feature.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by stusviews View Post
                          The KPL with the detachable load never went into production, so there's no official documentation. You're on your own.
                          You have said this several times but I am not clear what you mean. The developer documentation references it in firmware versions since 2013 and every Dual Band KeypadLinc I have tested supports it. It is not a feature that can be enabled other than through software. The documentation provides an explanation for how local linking is supposed to work with the buttons, I just do not understand it. The documentation I referenced above, says it is supported on 2486DWH6, 2334-222, 2334-232, 2486DWH8, 2486SWH6, 2486SWH6, 2487S, and 2487S.

                          The 2334-222 and 2334-232 are the current versions sold on the SmartHome site.

                          Resetting the KPL to factory settings does disable the detached load, just as resetting the KPL resets it to 8 or 6 buttons based on the model number (but can be changed just as easily).

                          One can test this with any of the above KPL's if one has Indigo:

                          To enable the detached load functionality you'll need to send the KeypadLinc (KPL) a raw command:

                          1) Choose the Interfaces->INSTEON->Execute Raw INSTEON Command... menu item.
                          2) Select your KPL device and enter 0x20 and 0x1B for command bytes 1 and 2.
                          3) Select the Send extended message checkbox, and press the Execute button.

                          Then go press the A button and it will toggle on/off but will not control the local load (it is now detached).

                          /carmi
                          Last edited by majortom; 09-09-2016, 03:59 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Well a large majority of users don't have access to the Developers Documentation.
                            So exactly how does a normal user even do this? Most software and Insteon Apps don't seem to support it.

                            I wounder why Smarthome and Smartlabs don't push this feature and choose to keep it in the dark? Not pushing it on the sales pages or in their own software and Apps.
                            Last edited by BLH; 09-10-2016, 05:06 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BLH View Post
                              Well a large majority of users don't have access to the Developers Documentation.
                              So exactly how does a normal user even do this?
                              First, everyone has access to the developer document to which I linked above, but that is not the problem. This is a feature that is only supported via software, in other words, one cannot detach the load using the KeypadLinc alone it only works as an Insteon extended message sent to the device.


                              Most software and Insteon Apps don't seem to support it.
                              Indigo supports it and with 6.1.11 it will fix the bug that prevents including it in triggers. I do not know about any other software (as that is all I use).

                              I wounder why Smarthome and Smartlabs don't push this feature and choose to keep it in the dark? Not pushing it on the sales pages or in their own software and Apps.
                              Given that it is not a feature supported directly, it is not something they can promote. With 6.1.11, Indigo will support all but one feature for using it - self-referential links (linking a button on a KeypadLinc to the KeypadLinc itself). If they added that, they would only need a small UI change to more openly support it (right now, one needs to send the command to detach the load using the raw Insteon command function).

                              I also realized that my question here was less clear than it should have been. I understand how to link from a remote KPL button to the detached load, my question is about how one creates a self-referential link from the KPL itself (Indigo does not support self-referential links).

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