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Hub Pro Doesn't Transmit Updated Device State to Homekit

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  • Hub Pro Doesn't Transmit Updated Device State to Homekit

    I have a Hub Pro and a number of dimmer switches installed in my home. I have the Hub Pro interfaced with Homekit, and my Apple TV functions as the Homekit automation controller. It took me multiple attempts to get my Hub Pro interfaced with my Homekit setup, and linking dimmers to the hub required power-cycling the hub in order for those dimmers to show up in Homekit. It was quite a frustrating hours-long ordeal (in contrast, setting up other Homekit-compatible devices took mere moments). The worst part was the fact that the online documentation (user manuals, etc.) is wrong - all of the instructions for navigating settings on each dimmer switch or keypad were flat-out wrong.

    Everything works fine if I only trigger scenes or set device levels from Homekit. Everything works fine if I only trigger scenes or set device levels from the physical switches and never use Homekit.

    But if I change the state of any device using a physical switch, the state of any responders doesn't get updated to Homekit. This is a problem because Homekit doesn't issue a command if it thinks a given device is already in the desired state.

    For example, I have a Homekit automation to set a dimmer at 100% when a given event occurs. Before the automation executes, Homekit thinks the dimmer is at 0%, and the dimmer is indeed set to 0%. When the automation executes, Homekit commands the dimmer to 100%, and the dimmer goes to 100%. Then, when I press the physical off-switch on the dimmer, the dimmer goes to 0%, but Homekit still thinks its at 100%. So the next time the automation trigger event occurs, Homekit does nothing - it thinks the dimmer is already at 100%, so it doesn't issue a command.

    Not only does Homekit get out of sync with the actual state of each dimmer, but the Insteon+ app shows the dimmers out of sync as well. So obviously, this is a problem with the Hub Pro not seeing changes triggered by Insteon devices.

    In order for Insteon devices to play nicely with Homekit, there has to be a mechanism for relaying device state information to Homekit via the Hub Pro. Clearly, that isn't happening. Either that, or each Insteon dimmer needs to be exposed as two devices (one switch, one dimmer) so that switch events get routed to Homekit, which then commands dimmers. Either way, the Hub Pro needs to be a responder in some capacity.

    I have seen conflicting information about this issue on these forums and elsewhere. I've seen people complain of this same issue, but I've also seen people claim it has been resolved by a firmware update. I'm not sure what to believe at this point. I only know that I'm still seeing this issue after running my Hub Pro with this setup for a week.

    Apparently, once upon a time, it was possible to trigger firmware updates via the Insteon+ app. But now that feature has disappeared. There is no longer an option to update the firmware from the app. I can check the firmware version on my controller (by finding the Insteon Connect status page), but unfortunately, I have no way to know if my Hub Pro is running the latest firmware, because the latest firmware release version is not published anywhere as far as I can tell. This is, quite frankly, an absurd decision. Even if firmware updates are automatically deployed, it should still be possible to manually trigger a firmware update. How else can I verify that my device - which has been sitting in a sealed box in a warehouse for months or even years - is running the latest firmware when I unpack it and set it up?


    So, there are multiple levels of issues here. I have several questions.

    Does the Hub Pro act as a responder to relay device state updates to Homekit? (If not, I'll be ripping out all of my Insteon switches and trashing them in favor of truly Homekit compatible switches, such as Eve's dimmer switches - I have no interest in waiting months or years for you to finish implementing this)

    If it does relay device state updates to Homekit, then what firmware version was this change released in? How do I ensure that my Hub Pro is running the latest firmware version? If it is not running the latest version, how do I force the installation of the latest version?

  • #2
    The Hub Pro now appears to update its firmware automatically, no need for manual intervention via the app. Also, no need for power-cycling when adding a device, there’s just a delay between when you tap-link a device and when it appears in HomeKit. During that time, it looks like the HP is checking the module’s settings and linking to the device as both a controller and responder, so the power cycling may have interfered with that process.

    From the beginning, provided everything is linked properly, I’ve observed that local switch operation has updated HomeKit as expected, regardless of the Hub Pro’s firmware. Pull up a room in Apple’s Home app and watch as you turn a module or light on or off using that module’s paddle. The app should reflect the change shortly after it happens.

    What confuses HomeKit is if you change a device state from a dfferent device that is acting as a virtual 3-way circuit. HomeKit captures the change of state to the device you tap, but you have to set up Automations (or, prior to iOS 11, Groups) to teach HomeKit that tapping the secondary switch on this end of the hall also changes the state of the primary switch at the other end.

    The problem is if you have a network that includes controllers not currently supported by HomeKit (i.e. mini remotes, sensors, IOLincs, KeypadLincs, etc.), then you can’t use Automations. In that case, you may end up stuck with having to give Siri 2 commands: first to switch to the state the device is currently in, then to change to the new setting.

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    • #3
      Homekit is not aware of Insteos concept of scenes. It only knows of the controlling device that you are actually using.

      Unfortunately homekit was designed to be used with different MFG. limited by Apple's vision. The way Insteon works and homekit works are not the same. Insteon scenes will not show up properly in homekit. For example, if you have a 4way and hit one of the secondary switches, the proper state will not reflect in homekit. If it is a singular device, changes made at the device should be showing up. If that isn't happening, there may be something wrong with your hub.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by TFitzpatri8 View Post
        The Hub Pro now appears to update its firmware automatically, no need for manual intervention via the app. Also, no need for power-cycling when adding a device, there’s just a delay between when you tap-link a device and when it appears in HomeKit. During that time, it looks like the HP is checking the module’s settings and linking to the device as both a controller and responder, so the power cycling may have interfered with that process.
        It's possible that my power-cycling the hub interrupted this process. I'll rule this out by re-adding the switches again.

        It would be nice if the Hub could give feedback on what it's currently doing through the Insteon+ app. Other than beeps when linking a switch, there's no indication that anything is happening.


        If I understand correctly, every simple switch comes from the factory with two scenes: an "on" scene and an "off" scene. When these switches are linked to a Hub Pro, the HP subscribes itself as a responder to these factory scenes for which the switch is a controller. Does it do so for all scenes on the controller? Or only the factory ones?

        I do have a 4-scene keypad as part of this setup (although I've seen the failure to update state with the simple switches, too). If I setup the keypad as a controller for several custom scenes, and *then* link it to the Hub Pro, will the Hub Pro set itself up as a responder to all of these scenes? (I may just go ahead and test this myself)

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        • #5
          I agree, more feedback during a device add would be a welcome addition.

          Your understanding of Insteon messaging isn’t quite right. When you tap or hold a device button or paddle, that device sends one of several Group commands: On, Off, Bright, Dim, Fast On, or Fast Off. Any linked responder receives those commands and reacts accordingly. When you add a switch to the Hub Pro, the HP links to the module as both a Controller and Responder. That way, if you tap the switch, the HP gets the message, and if you control something via Siri, the switch will get the message.

          HomeKit itself is completely oblivious to any Insteon scenes you create by manually linking devices, no matter when you create them. HomeKit sees that you turned on a switch, but it doesn’t understand the implications of that action (i.e. that a bunch of other devices simultaneously changed state) unless and until you manually teach it. To create that awareness, you have to create relationships using the Automations feature in Apple’s Home app (or another HomeKit-compatible app). It would be nice if HomeKit could read Insteon device link tables and automatically translate that into Automations, but I don’t think Apple is ready to allow machines to create their own Automations rules quite yet.

          Because of limitations placed on HomeKit by Apple, several Insteon devices (including the KeypadLinc secondary buttons) are not yet supported. See: https://www.insteon.com/support-know...s-with-insteon

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          • #6
            As TF stated, homekit ONLY see the actions of the switch/device that has been added to Home App, so if you turn the light on from the "main switch" that has been added to home app, then homekit knows the light is on, but if you turn that light off via other controllers, like a linked switch or multi button or mini remote, then homekit is unaware the device has changed. there are options.. as stated you can "link" them in home app via automations, to you can actually also add both switches to home kit and then under the main switch device set up page in home app, you can turn on have this device control other devices and essentially link them in the home app.the two tiles for the two "switches" will become 1.

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