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Random X10 events on mixed Insteon network

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    #1

    Random X10 events on mixed Insteon network

    I'm slowly getting my extensive X10 / Smarthome Manager installation converted to Insteon / Houselinc and just started having a new problem. I've only had a few Insteon modules until recently when I added several more, including 2477D SwitchLinc Dimmers. One pair of these dimmers is used in a 3-way circuit with one of them (Primary) set as a controller and the other one (Secondary) as a responder. They all work fine between themselves and with my Houselinc programs.

    BUT I have an X10 Remote Module HD501 (telescoping antenna for receiving RF from keyboards, key fobs, etc.) with built-in appliance switch relay that switches on/off several times every time I operate the SwitchLinc controller or responder. I have a Monterey Signal Analyzer that indicates Bsc and Bbk (Bad Start Code and Bad Block) at the subject outlet so I assume the X10 device is simply giving an erroneous response to the Insteon devices. None of my Insteon devices have X10 address and they are not programmed to generate X10 codes.

    I believe that I found a solution by moving the X10 Remote Module to an outlet on another circuit. BUT, I have a similar problem with a X10 wall switch that obviously can't be moved.

    Any insights would be appreciated. The quick solution to the wall switch is probably just to replace it with an Insteon equivalent, but I wonder what other erroneous X10 responses I may be in for before I get everything converted.

    Conversion would be so much more simple if Insteon devices were not so expensive. The Christmas sales from Smarthome offered a great opportunity to expand my conversion.

    Dick
    Tags: None
    #2
    Some Insteon devices have an assigned X10 house/unit code due to testing. The usual procedeure is to factory reset each Insteon device before installation (that's nowhere in the instructions). But, you can factory reset anytime, Just delete any links first, if possible.
    Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
    Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

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      #3
      Insteon uses a power line frequency of 131.65KHz. X10 uses a power line frequency of 120KHz. Both are timed to the Zero Crossing of the AC power line.
      Insteon starts 800us before Zero Crossing and X10 at Zero Crossing.

      I don't have the X10 power line tester you have but I do have the Smarthome TesterLinc. Some of the BSC and BBK messages on my tester where from Insteon commands misread by my tester.
      So that maybe some of the codes you are seeing.

      Is the HD501 falsely triggering On and Off or are you using its internal switched outlet?

      The HD501 is the IBM model of the X10 RR501.

      Do you have a BoosterLinc or BoosterLinc enabled Smarthome SwitchLinc in your present setup?
      They are known to falsely trigger on an Insteon power line signal as an X10 one. Causing signal corruption if memory serves me.

      Some X10 Coupler Repeaters also can falsely trigger on an Insteon power line signal. Do you have an X10 coupler repeater?
      Last edited by BLH; 02-16-2015, 04:40 AM. Reason: More information added.

      Comment

        #4
        1) I was not aware of the Factory Reset capability and potential built-in X10 codes ... I'll figure out how to do the reset and try the Remote Module in the original socket again.

        2) I have the full specs on X10 but nothing on Insteon so didn't realize how close the frequencies and timings are. Yes, the HD501 is an IBM unit. I collaborated with the IBM home automation group for the brief time it existed and ended up with quite a few of the branded modules. I do not have a BoosterLinc. I do not have an X10 Coupler Repeater either. I have a phase-bridge and X10 modules.

        Thanks for the quick and helpful responses. I'm looking forward to eventually having a full Insteon system and if Smarthome will have some more sale offers it will be sooner rather than later.

        Comment

          #5
          You may find the Insteon Whitepaper interesting.
          [url]http://cache.insteon.com/documentation/insteon_details.pdf[/url]

          They recently also released most of the Developers Notes that where originally available to the developers group members.
          [url]http://www.insteon.com/developer/[/url]

          Comment

            #6
            Which specific phase-bridge?
            Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
            Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

            Comment

              #7
              1) BLH, thanks for the links

              2) stusviews, from the notes in my files it looks like I originally installed a Leviton 6201 System Amplifer/Repeater in 2000, then replaced it for some reason in 2002 with a Leviton HCA02. If memory serves me correctly, and it often does not, it's installed in my 200A breaker panel across the two phases along with a Leviton 51120-3R Transient Voltage Surge Suppressor/Arrester.

              I went ahead and ordered a 2477S to replace the X10 wall switch that was acting up, but it doesn't seem to have done it since I moved the HD501 Remote Module to a different circuit. Perhaps the two were related.

              BTW. Is there a way to get email notifications of these Replies? I submitted this question to the Web Master via the Contact Us page also but have not heard back yet. I use a lot of forums and most will send me an email notification when I Subscribe to something. I have my Google Groups set to Daily Digest, which combines all replies into a single email. I find that most convenient.

              Comment

                #8
                Just to be clear, the X10 wall switch that gave a problem has been replaced with an Insteon SwitchLinc, but the HD501 is still affected?

                BTW, the Leviton HCA02 is an active coupler-repeater and can cause Insteon signalling problems.
                Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
                Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

                Comment

                  #9
                  To clarify: after switching two X10 dimmers on a 3-way circuit to Insteon 2477D's I had problems with an HD501 and X10 wall switch. I moved the HD501 to a different outlet and it now seems OK. I have ordered a 2477S to replace the X10 wall switch but it has not acted up again.

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