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  • I want real dimmers

    Ok guys. This is ridiculous.

    We aren't a bunch of grandmothers sitting around with Tiffany lamps. What is the point of a home control system if you cannot control LIGHTING? Who in 2016 uses line voltage lighting? 8" downlights??? I am an architect and I haven't specified line voltage lighting in 20 years! Serious. Basically A-lamps are banned in the US. What exactly is your market? Your dimmers are dooming you to obsolescence and we are not doing to buy wireless light bulbs. Fine for a desk lamp, but how do you light a large modern room? You have to have recessed lighting and that calls for recessed lighting --- today that means LED. You officially don't support that. That's nuts. Most larges homes and apartments in Manhattan are moving towards that and based on energy codes we won't have a choice. You need to help us if you to be included in this.

    Recessed MR-16, and many other types of low voltage lamping (ask your competitors --- Lutron, et al) was the standard for 20 years. Catch up. Now most people have moved to LED. And we aren't talking about cheap retrofit bulbs. We are talking about recessed fixtures, downlights with drivers which with you need to PUBLISH the compatibility standards your dimmers have.

    Please advise when you will get your dimmers up to the standards of Lutron, your competitor.

    George

  • #2
    This is a user-to-user forum. If you have a concern with the manufacturer, then you should probably contact them directly, (949) 221-0037 or (866) 243-8022.

    BTW, I've been using Insteon dimmers successfully with LEDs for years.
    Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
    Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

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    • #3
      gmberry,

      You can message me directly if you want to speak with someone at INSTEON directly.
      Last edited by SteveL; 07-11-2016, 08:46 PM.

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      • #4
        Even lutron has problems with LEDs. While they work really well with different LED's no single mfg. is compatible with every LED. Insteon as well as other mfg. are doing a better job at improving them but unlike incandescent bulbs, there are many different variables with LEDs.

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        • #5
          I recently bought and remodeled my home installing about 60 recessed LED lamps from a variety of manufacturers, all of them on Insteon dimmers. Insteon works with all of them, but definitely some better than others. Some of the cheaper ones that I bought from a big box store will dim down to about 20-25% - below that seems to be below the cutoff voltage and they go out or flicker. Others that I purchased at a lighting store dim very smoothly from 100% down to zero. As a side note - I also replaced some recessed incandescent bulbs with Philips LED bulbs that go from a cool white to warm white as you dim them - those bulbs are da bomb (and work well with Insteon).

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          • #6
            Provide the brands and models and your results so as to guide others
            Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
            Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

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            • #7
              You may also find the results are better when there are more bulbs on a given circuit. There is a min wattage for dimming and since LEDs are already much lower consumption to begin with once you start dimming them you can drop below the min.
              Hub 2245-222, ID 46.F7.AE, Prod
              iPhone 7, iPad Air iOS 11.4.1, iPad mini iOS 9.3.5
              Insteon for Hub App v1.15.4 build 334
              Cisco RV345, Asus RT-AC1900P (AP mode)
              46 Insteon devices, 1 Echo Show, 2 Echos, 2 Echo Dots v1 & v2, Harmony Elite

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              • #8
                One other technical specification I rarely see covered.
                Most LED bulbs have a Inrush Current and a Repetitive Peak current. When on a dimmer.
                I have an LED bulb that indicates when adding up loads on a dimmer. Use 85 watts when adding up the loads on a dimmer to cover the inrush and repetitive peak currents. Even though they only use 9 watt of power. Most manufacturer just gloss over that fact or bury the data in a sales sheet not on the box the bulb is sold in.

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                • #9
                  Not all LED lamps are dimmable.

                  As far as I know homes, condos and residence in the US are supplied with 120/240 vac @ 60 Hz. Not low voltage DC. Commercial building use 277/480 VAC, 3 phase power to keep the current requirement down. Going to 12, 24 or 48 DC volts in a large building would create problems with current requirements.

                  The short story is, incandescent lamp are a simple device, LED lamps are a complex device with no standards.

                  The long story:
                  LED's run on DC volts and have a min voltage to light them, then they run on current. All LED's need a current controlled power supply. As far as I know there are no standards for how LEDs are powered. All LED lamps comes with a power supply designed for that LED, in the screw base. Multi-LED systems also come with a power supply. The only common power interface to LED powers supplies are 120, 240 or 277 ac volts. There may be some LED system that run on 12, 24 or 48 volts DC. They still need a power supply to convert AC to DC . Even if LEDs are running on 12 VDC, they still need something to control the current.

                  Not all LED power supplies have a inrush current and or draw current at the peak of the AC wave. Also the LED power supply uses power. This lowers the efficiency of the LED lamp.

                  The problem with some dimmers is the LED does not draw power when it is not lit. Some dimmers will not turn on if it doesn't see a load. The other problem for dimmers is there is no standards for LED power supplies.

                  A incandescent lamp is a very simple device, it conducts current in both direction of the AC wave. It is a white hot resistor. Light Emitting Diode (LED) only conduct in one direction of a AC wave. If power by AC it will turn off and on 60 times a second. It will not be as bright as it could be. That is why DC is used, so it doesn't blink on and off. Also when a LED turns on it looks like a short circuit. Without something to control the current the LED will burn up.

                  Insteon dimmers:

                  All a Insteon 120 VAC dimmer needs to be, is compatible with the five or six version of LED power supplies in current use. If the LED does not dim properly, that is a design problem with the LED power supply. That LED power supply design is old.

                  I have used Insteon dimmers with LED lighting with no problems. As far as I can tell they are compatible with the newer current wave of LED lighting.

                  Today if Insteon wanted to come out with a LED dimmer to power LEDs directly, they would have to come out with their own line of LED lamps.

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                  • #10
                    Hi,
                    I just had an electrician in to install a few toggle, dimmer light switches. They could not wire a three way replacement switch! I gave them the install instructions. Why couldn't they figure this out? Did I order the wrong switches? I got #2466DW from Smarthome. They gave up!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 1e5ter View Post
                      Hi,
                      I just had an electrician in to install a few toggle, dimmer light switches. They could not wire a three way replacement switch! I gave them the install instructions. Why couldn't they figure this out? Did I order the wrong switches? I got #2466DW from Smarthome. They gave up!
                      No you got the correct switches. They do use an unusual way of being connected. There is no real three way Insteon switch. You power both of them and cross link them to each other for a three way control,. One has its load output connected to the fixture the other has its load wire capped off and not used..

                      I would say most electricians have never seen an Insteon switch that is wired in a way most may get confused by.
                      Insteon does not wire the way a standard three way does. Many times you have to rewire so the AC Line and Neutral is in both switch positions. Maybe changes in the light fixture also.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 1e5ter View Post
                        Hi,
                        I just had an electrician in to install a few toggle, dimmer light switches. They could not wire a three way replacement switch! I gave them the install instructions. Why couldn't they figure this out? Did I order the wrong switches? I got #2466DW from Smarthome. They gave up!
                        Is the original installation a 3-way configuration? BTW, you need two Insteon devices for a 3-way configuration. Having only one won't work.
                        Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
                        Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

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                        • #13
                          Hi...i am a new user here. I have many lights at my home. Insteon works with all of them, but definitely some better than others. Some of the cheaper ones that I bought from a big box store will dim down to about 20-25% - below that seems to be below the cutoff voltage and they go out or flicker. Others that I purchased at a lighting store dim very smoothly from 100% down to zero.

                          pcb assembly
                          Last edited by CoraDias; 03-29-2018, 12:40 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CoraDias View Post
                            Hi...i am a new user here. I have many lights at my home. Insteon works with all of them, but definitely some better than others. Some of the cheaper ones that I bought from a big box store will dim down to about 20-25% - below that seems to be below the cutoff voltage and they go out or flicker. Others that I purchased at a lighting store dim very smoothly from 100% down to zero.
                            If the Insteon dimmers are the same model and revision, then how they dim depends entirely on the bulb. OTOH, I've never comes across an LED of CFL bulb that dims smoothly all the way down to zero. Even more troublesome is brightening up from zero.
                            Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
                            Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have seen the same thing.
                              Some do not dim all the way to 0% and pop On when ramping from 0%.
                              Even some brand name dimmers like Lutron act the same on the LED bulbs. Except maybe their specially designed ones for LED loads.

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