Ceiling Fan Motor & Lighting Control

[tlkohler]

Good day all
I've searched for this and have found solutions to both parts but nothing that seems to combine both. If I've missed something please point me in the right direction and send me on my way. But if I'm correct I'd appreciate the benefit of your wisdom.

Here is the scenario: Foyer ceiling fan that has its fan motor controlled by a speed-control switch via 2 conductor w/gnd wire located in my living room. Power for this circuit is coming from (#9 breaker) a separate power source than the lighting control for the fan.

Utilizing a separate house circuit (#5) the power for the fan lighting is controlled from 3 separate locations by 2-3way and a 4-way switch setup. One of the fan lighting control switches (the 4-way) is located in a wall box next to the fan motor control switch. Power for this comes to the circuit via the 3-way switch located in the foyer as you enter the house and the switches are connected together via 3 conductor w/gnd and a 2 conductor carries the switched current to the light fixture in the fan from the last 3-way switch. It is my understanding this is a common method.

So the question is how do I get both fan motor and lighting control preferably off of one power circuit? My thought is to place a fanlinc (#2475F) at the fan and use a 6 button keypadlinc (#2487S) at the living room location and use 2 Dimmer switches (#2477D) at the other 2 locations. If that is correct then how do I wire them. Also how do I resolve the issue of switched power at my fan when I understand I need constant power to the fanlinc for it to operate correctly?

Thanks in advance.

Terry

[stusviews]

Describe the wires in in each switch box, including the colors, what each color id connected to and how they are grouped, for example the fan switch box has two 20wire cables, the white wires are connect to together and each black wire connects to the switch. One 3-way switch box has a 2-wire cable and a 3-wire cable, a black wire from the 2-cire cable is connected to the black screw and the brass screws has ..., etc.

[tlkohler]

Thanks for the quick response stu.

Lighting control setup
FR_3way.JPG
Family Room 2 gang box : 3-way switch, 3 cond wire (black, white, red). White wire connected to black (common) screw. Red and black to each of the brass screws. There are other wire connections in this 2 gang box but not associated with this circuit.

FOYER_3way.JPG
Foyer 2 gang box: 3-way switch, 1 - 3 cond wire (black, white, red) from 4-way switch and 1- 2 cond wire to fan light (black has taped end, white).
There are other wire connections in this 2 gang box but not associated with this circuit.




Living Room 3 gang box: For the lighting :4-way switch, 2 - 3 cond wire (each black, white, red) one to Foyer box and the other to Family Room box. Red from Fam Rm - black screw Red to Foyer - brass screw / Black from Fam Rm - brass screw / Black to Foyer - black screw) White in this box is used as a switched hot coming from the Fam Rm box.



Living Room 3 gang box : For the fan motor speed control: 1 speed control switch (power into the switch on black wire, white - neutral, dimmed power out of switch on red) and 2 cond (black & white) out to fan motor. Switch red wire to black , whites tied together - neutral.



At the fan box in the foyer ceiling is 1 - 2 cond (black-switched hot, white-neutral) for the lighting and 1 - 2 cond (black-dimmed(?) hot, white-neutral) for the fan speed control.

[stusviews]

Foyer, 3-way switch: there are two white wires in this box. What does each connect to? What does the red wire connect to? Which wire is connected to the black screw? What does (black has taped end, white) mean?

Living room 4-way switch: there are two white wire, but you describe only one. How do you know that one white wire is switched hot?

Living room fan control: whites tied together but you mention only one 2-wire cable.

[tlkohler]

Foyer, 3-way switch: there are two white wires in this box. What does each connect to?
One white is the neutral to the foyer fan light, the other is the switched hot that is in the Living Room box.

What does the red wire connect to?
The red wire was on one of the brass screws

Which wire is connected to the black screw?
The black with the taped end.

What does (black has taped end, white) mean?
That was my way of indicating it in the photo - one of the blacks has a "taped" end. This is the wire carrying power (hot) onto the fan light at the foyer ceiling junction box.


Living room 4-way switch: there are two white wire, but you describe only one.
They are all neutrals. One each to the Family Room junction box & Foyer junction box.

How do you know that one white wire is switched hot?
I'm embarrassed to say when I removed the switch from the LR junction box, I bundled "all" the whites together and when I reenergized the circuit had a flash at the box and tripped the breaker. Once I traced everything down it was apparent that one of the whites I bundled was actually hot - and was this wire.

Living room fan control: whites tied together but you mention only one 2-wire cable.
There is also a 2-cond which is feeding power to the circuit (breaker #9). What I meant was the whites are all bundled together - the white from the circuits power and the white from the 2 cond wire that goes to the foyer ceiling junction box. The black from the power side is connected to the motor speed control switch black and red from the motor speed control switch is tied to the black running to the foyer ceiling junction box. IMG_1606.JPG


I will also try to do a sketch of the circuit wiring to clarify the wiring runs. I'm just not real good with it.

[tlkohler]

A little more info I found on the Living Room 4-way switch connections.


LR_4way2.JPG
On this side of the switch the red wire on the top (black) screw travels to the Foyer 3-way switch and the red wire on the bottom (brass) screw travels to the Family Room 3-way switch.



On the other side of the 4-way switch ...
LR_4way3.JPG
The black wire on the top (brass) screw travels to the Foyer 3-way switch and the black wire on the bottom (black) screw travels to the Family Room 3-way switch.

[stusviews]

Piecemeal descriptions are difficult to follow. Concentrate on one switch as a time. Describe all the wires on that one switch and any wire cabled with a wire connected to a switch. For example, a 2-wire cable with black connected to the switch and white connected to ... , etc.

Post #5: Which switch is this. I see only a red wire and what appears to be a white wire with black tape. What is the red wire with the wire nut?

BTW, your original images are not visible.

[tlkohler]

All the descriptions have been given (sorry I thought adding description when I realized I hadn't posted it originally would make things clearer not muddier).

The photo in post #5 is the fan motor speed control switch. The wiring for it is power for circuit to black wire on control switch. Solid red wire out of control switch to fan motor black.
The capped red wire w/white strip out of the control is not used. There is no white wire out of the control switch. All neutrals (white wires) the power in and fan motor are tied together in this junction box.

Not sure what happened to a few of the original pix but I'll get them re-uploaded.

[stusviews]

Make any corrections:

1. Power (line and neutral) enters at the Living Room 4-way switch (breaker #9).
2. The Living Room box has a 2-conductor cable to the fan motor.
3. There's a 3-conductor cable between the 4-way switch and each 3-way switch.
4. The foyer box has a 2-conductor cable to the fan light.
5. Power also enters at the Foyer switch (breaker #5).

[tlkohler]

All of your statements are correct.

In addition, statements and 2 & 5 are associated. Currently the fans motor circuit is on breaker #5 (the lighting on breaker #9).

[stusviews]

The FanLinc and corresponding controllers (i.e., Keypads) do not need to be on the same breaker.

Use one and only one pair of conductors (black and white) to provide unswitched power to the ceiling box. You can do that from either the Living Room box or the Foyer box.

Cap all the 3-way and 4-way red wires separately. Use the remaining black and white wires (line and neutral, respectively) to provide unswitched power to each device that will replace the 4-way and 3-way switches. Cap the Keypad load (red) wires.

Create scenes with KPL buttons as controllers and the FanLinc as a responder. You'll be able to dim the lights from all three locations as well as control fan speeds.

Need help creating the scenes?

[tlkohler]

Thank you very much for your time and effort. I will make the connections tomorrow and advise.
Yes I could use assistance with the scenes ... I'm unclear as to how the SwitchLincs will work with the KPL at the Family Room & Foyer locations ... I assume I set them up with a KPL the same way I set them up with each other as 3-way controls.

And one more time ... thanks so much for the assistance.

[stusviews]

No. A virtual 3-way configuration has a wired connection between the controlling device and the load. The FanLinc does not.

The lighting scene is easy, but the fan speeds are a little trickier. Waht are you using to manage Insteon scenes, a Hub (which one, and ISY, software, something else). In the interim, leave the fan canopy off. Note that, for safety reasons, you cannot energize the fan using the set button.

If you can get the light to respond correctly from each KPL, then you have everything wired correctly. Reminder: there is no wired connection between any KPL and the FanLinc (except for unswitched power).

[tlkohler]

Good afternoon stusviews and anyone else that might have been following this thread. My apologies for "vanishing" ... to say I had a sudden serious medical issue would be an drastic understatement. This project remained at the stage of our last message for over a year now but I am mobile again and would very much like to pick up where this left off - if that would be possible. To be honest I've had to review these posts several times and my current wiring to remember the point I am at. If we can give this a go I would very much appreciate the help in moving this forward. I'll await a reply to see if that's agreeable.