Can I use a PLM as a signal booster?

[Tango]

I suspect at least part of the reason I'm having trouble with a 2448A7 USB PLM communicating with other devices could be a signal strength issue. My old network was on an ISY-994i and I used a PowerLinc Serial (Dual Band) 2413S, which connected to the ISY with a CAT5 cable. I'll soon be disconnecting the ISY. When I do that, is there a way for my 2448A7 to communicate with the older 2413S wirelessly and include it in my Insteon network so I can use it as a signal booster?

(I realize this section is about "Lighting and Appliance Control," but there's no clear forum for discussing any devices that are aren't actively controlling something. This seems the closest appropriate topic.)

[BLH]

The 2413S is a Dual Band module.
So it can interface with the 2448A7 by Insteon RF. As long as the Insteon RF signals can go between it and the 2413S PLM.
I have an older revision 2413S PLM in the pass through outlet on a 2456S3 power line only ApplianceLinc. It works fine as Insteon signal processor.

[BLH]

One more thought.
After removing the ISY994i system. You may want to do a Factory Reset on the 2413S PLM. To zero out its Link Database. So it would not still be processing the modules in its Link Database.

[Tango]

One more thought.
After removing the ISY994i system. You may want to do a Factory Reset on the 2413S PLM. To zero out its Link Database. So it would not still be processing the modules in its Link Database.

Oops!

Yeah, I don't think I ever remember actually adding that to the ISY network, but that was years ago. I tried adding the 2412S PLM to my new network after I posted this. (Thought, "Why not? See what happens!") and it wouldn't add. I don't see it as a device on the ISY's network listing, but that's a good point!

Am I right that it should receive data from the 2448A7 wirelessly, so all I need to do is have this plugged into a power outlet somewhere in the right area?

[Tango]

I did a factory reset on the 2413S and tried adding it. While Home Assistant said the information was saved, it didn't list the modem as a new device, so I'm not sure just what is going on. I'd think, since the 2448A7 registers as a device, so would this - and I'm puzzled why it saves the info if it can't connect. Is it possible this unit only takes serial input?

I'm going to ask about this on the Home Assistant forums as well, to see if anyone has experience using this particular PLM with Home Assistant on a Pi. I know it connects to the ISY with a CAT5 cable, but I'm almost positive that's not an ethernet connection.

[BLH]

The 2413S RJ45 Network style jack. Is an RS232 Serial Port. Not a network jack.

Only three pins are RS232. The three pins are Transmit, Receive and Common Ground. 19,200 Baud, 8 data bits, Np parity, 1 Stop Bit.The pin outs are on the sheet in the box or you can download it if needed.

If you still have the 2413S PLM shipping box. It does come with a RJ45 Plug to DB9 serial port plug in the box.

Two pins are TTL but I have never seen anyone using them. As TTL is not very immune to noise and wire length.

On an ISSY994i the PLM is not a device you can register. As an external device. Maybe if connected to the controller but again I don't use HA.

The 2448A7 is a USB module with FDDI serial to USB chip in it. On a computer you add it with a driver fro FTDI. Your Pi probably has a driver in it so it can be seen and accessed.

[Tango]

The 2413S RJ45 Network style jack. Is an RS232 Serial Port. Not a network jack.

Yes, and a bit frustrating that they couldn't just use an RS232 port, but I can work around it.

Only three pins are RS232. The three pins are Transmit, Receive and Common Ground. 19,200 Baud, 8 data bits, Np parity, 1 Stop Bit.The pin outs are on the sheet in the box or you can download it if needed.

Yes, commented on that on the other thead we're discussing these issues on. I'm figuring I can ignore the TTL signals. (If I had realized the topics would end up converging this much, I would have combined them at the start.)

If you still have the 2413S PLM shipping box. It does come with a RJ45 Plug to DB9 serial port plug in the box.

I have the box and was just breaking it down today. No adaptor plug like that in the box and I took some time earlier to go through my collection of adaptors and could not find anything like an RJ45 to DB9 - I would have LOVED to have found one like that, but now it looks like I get to roll my own cable. Oh, well. Haven't had to do that in years and I guess it gives me an excuse to stay in practice.

Two pins are TTL but I have never seen anyone using them. As TTL is not very immune to noise and wire length.

I suspected that, but I really appreciate the confirmation!

[QUOTE]On an ISSY994i the PLM is not a device you can register. As an external device. Maybe if connected to the controller but again I don't use HA.{/QUOTE]
I may end up trying that as part of the process, but I'm trying to eliminate the ISY from the whole system for multiple reasons. I'm not trying to imply they're bad, but I I'd rather work with as few components as possible, and they're not my preference. (Plus my ISY is outdated and if I use it for much, I'd have to upgrade the Z-Wave hardware. I prefer a Pi, since it's not too hard to upgrade a system to a new Pi or to plug in new USB sticks as a way of upgrading. It's easier to mix and match that way.)

As a side note, it would be quite possible to manage the ISY through HA if that were my preference.

The 2448A7 is a USB module with FDDI serial to USB chip in it. On a computer you add it with a driver fro FTDI. Your Pi probably has a driver in it so it can be seen and accessed.

I know HA has a driver and that it's working in communication with the 2448A7.

Here's something I just thought about - a point that didn't occur to me until I was typing this response.

The 2413S was plugged in and connected to the ISY while I was testing the 2448A7. I don't know if it would have had problems because it was working with only devices in the old network or not. So once I took the dimmer out of the ISY hub's Insteon network, the 2413S might have started ignoring it? Or is it that a PLM like that will relay any Insteon signals it receives to the specified Insteon device?

[Tango]

This thread and another one about problems with my 2448A7 are converging and covering the same material now, so you can find the rest of this discussion in the link included.

[BLH]

The 2448A7 is a PLM. That only communicates with Insteon RF and has no power line capabilities. So it has to communicate with other module by RF.

[BLH]

Are your modules. The older power line only or the Dual Band modules?
If they are the power line only ones. They are subject to the same phase coupling need you had in X10. So it is possible you have a coupling issue. Using a Dual Band Range extender can help.
If they are Dual Band. Try the built into the modules. The Communications tests. Some times called the 4 tap, communications or beacon tests. Then see if modules can communicate with each other.

I believe the AT004 could still display power line noise. As that could be a factor. Noise can sometimes effect Insteon power line receivers in the modules.
It may show some corrupt X10 signals. As Insteon is close to X10s frequency and command structure.

OH yes the 2413S, 2413U PLM along with the V2 2443 Access Points. Have a known power supply failure issue. Most times after a few years. That is why there is a long how to on the UDI forum. On rebuilding them. Due to the ongoing chip shortages and shipment issues.

The 2413S PLM has been out of stock for a real long time now. Except a few showed up briefly on the Smarthome site recently

An ISY99i? The older discontinued one. A few years ago. It will be limited to later module support. As it firmware was frozen at 3.3.10 if memory serves me and newer modules where added in more recent firmware only for the ISY994i.

[SeanM]

Every Insteon dual-band (DB) device has the ability to go into 'beacon mode' where it broadcasts a signal and other Insteon DB devices will respond if they hear the signal. X-10 devices will not respond to this signal.

Just press the set button four (4) times, very quickly and it will start. Tap the set button one more time to exit that mode.

If you are using the PLM to control X10 devices you are giving up the added benefits of Insteon (multiple retries, repeaters, error correction, etc..) and are solely relying on a single powerline broadcast signal to reach the X10 device.

[BLH]

Does anyone have a suggestion for how to test the PLM's signal strength ... Did Smarthome test each existing X-10 device,

You want to test the PLM for X10, Insteon or both signal strength?

The beacon,communications test as pointed out. Help with Insteon. My X10 meter is not accurate as the modules pass message along and seeing just the PLM is almost impossible to see.
For X10 an X10 meter should show its signals. Since it has a power line transmitter in it. When it is not sending an X10 signal. It can absorb a small amount of an x10 signal on the power liens. I still have my JV Digital XTB-IIR in use for my small amount of X10 devices I still have. It is one of the only repeaters that does not clobber an Insteon power line signal as an X10 one.

I doubt Smarthome tested many X10 modules with a PLM. Many of the latest Insteon module have officially dropped support for an optional X10 primary address.