Half my house is flashing! Help!!!!

[614Emma]

I installed roughly 90 switches and keypads in my home 10 years ago. Our home has an addition and some switches were located in odd places (switch to outside lights no where close to the front door). So I thought how nice I can use a keypad to control those switches located in inconvenient places. We replaced every switch/dimmer in the entire house. At that time Insteon made a product called an “in-line” link dimmer, which could be installed inside the wall, and dry-walled over. We had two locations with four 4-gang switches (16 switches on the wall in our dining room) so we used the inline link product to eliminate wall clutter and minimize the number of visible switches. Never have a regretted a decision SO MUCH in my life! These switches have all gone bad and now they flash constantly! I’ve called Support and they told me basically I’m shit outta luck. Over the years we’ve slowly replaced some of the broken keypads but I’m now at the point that I need to replace them all... all 90 switches and keypads throughout the entire house. Are these products really not made to last? Should I expect that I’ll need to replace them ALL every 10 years??? I liked these when we first installed them but 10 years and three children later, I don’t need this much hassle in my life. I don’t want a product I need to constantly “tinker” with. I need light switches that work consistently so when it’s time for dinner, we have at least one working light in our dining room... the dining room i mentioned has 16 switches... NONE of those 16 keypads/dimmers/inline link... none of them are working today. Help!!! What are my options?

[lilyoyo1]

I installed roughly 90 switches and keypads in my home 10 years ago. Our home has an addition and some switches were located in odd places (switch to outside lights no where close to the front door). So I thought how nice I can use a keypad to control those switches located in inconvenient places. We replaced every switch/dimmer in the entire house. At that time Insteon made a product called an “in-line” link dimmer, which could be installed inside the wall, and dry-walled over. We had two locations with four 4-gang switches (16 switches on the wall in our dining room) so we used the inline link product to eliminate wall clutter and minimize the number of visible switches. Never have a regretted a decision SO MUCH in my life! These switches have all gone bad and now they flash constantly! I’ve called Support and they told me basically I’m shit outta luck. Over the years we’ve slowly replaced some of the broken keypads but I’m now at the point that I need to replace them all... all 90 switches and keypads throughout the entire house. Are these products really not made to last? Should I expect that I’ll need to replace them ALL every 10 years??? I liked these when we first installed them but 10 years and three children later, I don’t need this much hassle in my life. I don’t want a product I need to constantly “tinker” with. I need light switches that work consistently so when it’s time for dinner, we have at least one working light in our dining room... the dining room i mentioned has 16 switches... NONE of those 16 keypads/dimmers/inline link... none of them are working today. Help!!! What are my options?

They are electronic....they are bound to die. Look at cell phones, cars, tvs, stereos, and everything else you buy. How many phones, tvs, etc., do people buy or repair within a 10 year period? It sucks that tech support couldnt help but reality is there is nothing they can do. What was the expectation? Without access to the switches, how can they help you troubleshoot? It was a poor design choice and they are 10 years old devices.
Im assuming that youve replaced your old incandescent bulbs with newer leds. If this is the case, the flickering can potentially be bulbs that are not compatible with your dimmers. A switch to a compatible bulb (such as philips warm glow Led bulbs) could solve this. If they are compatible, check your wiring. Ive seen bad power coming in from the street cause flickering as well as bad neutral wiring. If it is the switches, then you really have no alternative but to replace them. I never embed devices behind sealed walls for this reason. Too much stuff goes on behind there. Also makes troubleshooting a pain.

At this point, you have no good options. You can either bite the bullet and re-wire the whole house properly or stick with some type of automation system. Yes that option does come with a lifetime of device replacement at some point. This applies no matter who you choose. You could try a higher end system which may last longer but costs 3x as much....without even getting into the installation and programming fees. While some devices will still fail within 10 years, the system overall will last around 15+. Anything else (insteon or zwave) will do but will not have the longevity.

[614Emma]

My other major appliances I bought 15 years ago are all still working. I also installed a Sonos whole house wireless music system (5 rooms of audio) 15 years ago... some of which the amplifiers are installed in a very hot attic, and all that equipment is still working just fine.
I don’t think I would go with anything Insteon again. I’m looking at Lutron, and kicking myself for choosing a shoddy product. RadioRA seems to be a superior product in every way. And Lutron stands by their product... lifetime warranty on their switches and dimmers.

[dsnider]

I'm in the exact same boat, except that I only bought about 30 of these things (not 90!), and thankfully didn't buy any designed to be drywalled over... I can't imagine such a thing is allowed by the electrical code. Every device needs an access, about the only thing you can wall up is pipes, ducts, wires, and insulation.

Over half the lights in our house are currently unusable, because only a few of these switches still function, and some only barely function (light comes on, but will blink on and off several times before stabilizing). Pretty much all of the timed switches (used for bathroom fans) died within the first year, and all the more expensive fancier switches (8-button switch, 1000-watt switch) died within a few years as well.

If I had known that these switches wouldn't last, I certainly would not have designed my house around them (3-way dimmer pairing, etc). Besides the switches being quite expensive, it cost a lot more to have them properly installed by qualified electricians. Now I'm worried about how much it will cost to have them all removed, and replaced with something else.

[Tobias]

They are electronic....they are bound to die.

A 'fixed-installation' product that is only expected to last five years is complete TRASH. Except for lightning strikes and nasty surges, there's no reason why these devices could not be designed to last 30..50 years.

I don't agree with the comparison with cell phones. I have 15 year old cell phones that work like a charm. Even the batteries work fine (due to limited use). Cell phones are generally subjected to a lot of mechanical stress, and apps are getting more and more resource-hungry (or rather wasteful of resources), so it's natural that they don't last. Insteon devices perform a relatively simple task in a static environment. They should last.

[lilyoyo1]

At what point did I say insteon will only last 5 years? If you're going to put words in my mouth, don't make stuff up. I simply said they are electronic. They will die at some point. Period. Many standard mechanical switches don't last 50 years but you think an electronic device would? Get real. You can complain about it and say however long you think it will.last but reality is, it won't.

Unless you install a whole house surge protector, you could be potentially exposing your home to power surges, sags, and other things. Most people do NOT protect their house with meter surge protectors or whole home surge protectors. Let alone both so you don't know what's happening inside the walls at all times. Granted the quality of insteon was worse then than now, the fact remains, any and every automation device will die. If replacing devices and maintaining a system isn't what someone doesn't want to do, then they should avoid it.

I'm surprised your 15 year old cell phone works since they would be analog and those networks have been shut down.

[lilyoyo1]

My other major appliances I bought 15 years ago are all still working. I also installed a Sonos whole house wireless music system (5 rooms of audio) 15 years ago... some of which the amplifiers are installed in a very hot attic, and all that equipment is still working just fine.
I don’t think I would go with anything Insteon again. I’m looking at Lutron, and kicking myself for choosing a shoddy product. RadioRA seems to be a superior product in every way. And Lutron stands by their product... lifetime warranty on their switches and dimmers.

I love how people will compare a 40 dollar switch to a 1000 piece of equipment. If you want to get your point across at least make the comparisons worthwhile.

RadioRa2 is a great choice. Depending on what devices you go with and package it's also a minimum of 4x the price of insteon. Comparing insteon to radioRa2 is like comparing a Chevy Malibu to a Mercedes S class.

[vino]

Precisely why I don’t go with individual companies anymore for Home Automation or Home Security. I have chosen HomeKit as my platform and will only buy devices that are compatible with HomeKit. This will allow me to switch out devices when they die without caring for manufacturer other than their quality and support. Apple will be around much longer than any of the device companies and I’ve placed my bet on them. Insteon has chosen not do so and so it’s down for me.

Now to the OP, you should slowly start replacing the hidden dimmers with physical switches. X-10, Insteon, Zigbee etc have shown that there is no universal standard that will last for more than a few years for software or wireless based products. Physical switches are future proof - if they can connect to Homekit or Google Home or any other platform, that’s a plus but atleast you have a physical switch.

[Gunn]

At that time Insteon made a product called an “in-line” link dimmer, which could be installed inside the wall, and dry-walled over.

So your house probably has this product within it: https://www.insteon.com/dimmer-in-linelinc

These were not meant to be drywalled over, and would NOT have passed code if they were. They are most likely installed in a junction box somewhere accessible, like your attic. In my case which is similar to yours, I used 3 of the newer micro-dimmer modules that were basically the same thing, but smaller. I installed mine in junction boxes in the attic, and then ran Romex wire to the lights I wanted to control. Then I too used a KeypadLinc to control all of these micro dimmer modules. Worked great as I have 6 scenes of lights in my master bathroom, but only 2 switches at the entrance...one SwitchLinc for a quick tap of the primary lights, and then a 6 button Keypadlinc to control the rest.

So first...find these inlineLinc dimmers modules! If you find one and it's faulty, your only option to replace it is with an Insteon SwitchLinc itself, as they no longer make your inlineLinc dimmer or the micro-dimmer that I used (Thanks fu&*ing($ Insteon!). Then you can still control the SwitchLinc with a KeypadLinc, of course. Hokey, but doable...

I'm certain all 90 of your switches aren't faulty, you just have to find the ones that are and replace them, possibly with another product while you slowly move over.

And that guys statement about "They are electronic...they are bound to die" is ridiculous. If you make them properly, they'll last forever (and I used to do that). No moving parts! For a long time, Insteon products were bad. I replaced most under warranty way back when, and some I had to re-purchase. But for the last 5+ years I'd say, nothing has failed. They are much better now.

But I guess they are discontinuing everything, so...

[lilyoyo1]

So your house probably has this product within it: https://www.insteon.com/dimmer-in-linelinc

These were not meant to be drywalled over, and would NOT have passed code if they were. They are most likely installed in a junction box somewhere accessible, like your attic. In my case which is similar to yours, I used 3 of the newer micro-dimmer modules that were basically the same thing, but smaller. I installed mine in junction boxes in the attic, and then ran Romex wire to the lights I wanted to control. Then I too used a KeypadLinc to control all of these micro dimmer modules. Worked great as I have 6 scenes of lights in my master bathroom, but only 2 switches at the entrance...one SwitchLinc for a quick tap of the primary lights, and then a 6 button Keypadlinc to control the rest.

So first...find these inlineLinc dimmers modules! If you find one and it's faulty, your only option to replace it is with an Insteon SwitchLinc itself, as they no longer make your inlineLinc dimmer or the micro-dimmer that I used (Thanks fu&*ing($ Insteon!). Then you can still control the SwitchLinc with a KeypadLinc, of course. Hokey, but doable...

I'm certain all 90 of your switches aren't faulty, you just have to find the ones that are and replace them, possibly with another product while you slowly move over.

And that guys statement about "They are electronic...they are bound to die" is ridiculous. If you make them properly, they'll last forever (and I used to do that). No moving parts! For a long time, Insteon products were bad. I replaced most under warranty way back when, and some I had to re-purchase. But for the last 5+ years I'd say, nothing has failed. They are much better now.

But I guess they are discontinuing everything, so...

It's ridiculous to think a 30+ dollar switch will last a lifetime when much more expensive (and broken) items fill our landfills everyday after a few years of use. It would be nice for it to last a lifetime but anyways.

I've re-done a few jobs like the ops where stuff was drywalled-over. Alot of times, the inspector has already been over to inspect the changes or it was never done with a permit. Hopefully the op is mistaken in regards to location and it was done the way that you said...

I've seen fcc entries for new products that are coming out for insteon. Hopefully, some of these discontinued products are being replaced with newer devices. If anything, I'm hoping the csc agent was incorrect and it's simply covid related as with everything else missing from store shelves

[Czerwinski87]

Thanks for the information NavyArmyCCU

[eagle77]

I've seen fcc entries for new products that are coming out for insteon. Hopefully, some of these discontinued products are being replaced with newer devices.

I certainly hope this is the case. But has there ever been a company that spends SO little time promoting their products and customer service? I know many people who love their Insteon setups (many of whom started on my recommendations). But all are starting to question their next purchases as they have doubts about the future of the company and technology. Really! How hard would it be for Insteon to issue a news release about where they are headed?!!

[lilyoyo1]

I certainly hope this is the case. But has there ever been a company that spends SO little time promoting their products and customer service? I know many people who love their Insteon setups (many of whom started on my recommendations). But all are starting to question their next purchases as they have doubts about the future of the company and technology. Really! How hard would it be for Insteon to issue a news release about where they are headed?!!

I agree. I wish they would be more open with their plans. In today's age where new products are dropping constantly, it does make one question how do to invest in them when they refuse to do the minimal to keep people interested