Insteon Hub Pro and Logitech Harmony

[filmgeek47]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The limitations you're pointing out with the Phillips app are entirely irrelevant to what I'm looking for in my home.

Just posting this so that in the unlikely event that someone from insteon checks up on forum threads they'll see that people are still hoping to see a HomeKit hub that can also integrate with other services. At this point I'd even consider buying both hubs if they could make them not conflict with one another as I've heard that they currently do.

[lilyoyo1]

Yup. I am in the habit of reading things before I respond to them. What you're saying simply doesn't make sense.

With Philips hue, they've made a hub that can be controlled by systems from multiple vendors (i.e. amazon alexa and home kit). Sure, you have to use multiple apps to configure those systems. So what? Once you've finished configuring them, you can use your voice either via an iPhone or alexa to turn your lights on and off. Flexible and effective.

That's exactly what I'm looking for with Insteon. I just want a home kit compatible lightswitch that can also be turned on and off by logitech harmony scenes. I don't need harmony to be considered a home kit device to do that.

And in spite of what you've claimed, Philips has proved that there's nothing in Apple's system that prevents hub manufacturers from doing this.

It seems clear to me that either Insteon cheaped out, or they have some sort of agreement with Logitech that prevents them from adding that integration to a home kit hub (possibly because logitech is trying to compete with apple in the smart home space, who knows.)

For those like me who've given up waiting, I'd recommend using a raspberry pi and home bridge as a work around to getting an integrated home kit/harmony lighting system. Pain in the but, but it works pretty well, and I didn't have to reward Insteon for their mediocre product design.

It doesn't matter if it makes sense to you or not, that is how it is. If you studied hue much closer, you would also see the limitations with it itself. Yes it can work with echo as well as homekit. Try controlling your thermostat from the hue app. Try unlocking your door from the hue app. Guess what...you can't do either. Both systems was designed to support home kit in different manners. Insteon decided to do theirs where you can control other home kit devices. Hue decided to do theirs where you can add their devices to multiple things but not control multiple things from it.

From your own point, Insteon made a hub that can be controlled by multiple vendors as well. The echo as well as Philips can control your insteon devices using the hub 2.

[filmgeek47]

Did you read the whole post which details the differences in approachh or simply stop when you read what you didn't like?

Insteon approach allows you to add different mfg. Devices to their app. Hues does not. While hues approach allows their device to be used with more systems, you're still forced to utilize multiple apps which defeats the purpose of homekit.

Now that Apple is creating their own app, this is less of a worry. Being an apple partner, I assume insteon knew they were working in a solution which is why them (as well as others) haven't really invested in growing their solutions but that would be for them to answer

Yup. I am in the habit of reading things before I respond to them. What you're saying simply doesn't make sense.

With Philips hue, they've made a hub that can be controlled by systems from multiple vendors (i.e. amazon alexa and home kit). Sure, you have to use multiple apps to configure those systems. So what? Once you've finished configuring them, you can use your voice either via an iPhone or alexa to turn your lights on and off. Flexible and effective.

That's exactly what I'm looking for with Insteon. I just want a home kit compatible lightswitch that can also be turned on and off by logitech harmony scenes. I don't need harmony to be considered a home kit device to do that.

And in spite of what you've claimed, Philips has proved that there's nothing in Apple's system that prevents hub manufacturers from doing this.

It seems clear to me that either Insteon cheaped out, or they have some sort of agreement with Logitech that prevents them from adding that integration to a home kit hub (possibly because logitech is trying to compete with apple in the smart home space, who knows.)

For those like me who've given up waiting, I'd recommend using a raspberry pi and home bridge as a work around to getting an integrated home kit/harmony lighting system. Pain in the but, but it works pretty well, and I didn't have to reward Insteon for their mediocre product design.

[lilyoyo1]

Did you read the whole post which details the differences in approachh or simply stop when you read what you didn't like?

Insteon approach allows you to add different mfg. Devices to their app. Hues does not. While hues approach allows their device to be used with more systems, you're still forced to utilize multiple apps which defeats the purpose of homekit.

Now that Apple is creating their own app, this is less of a worry. Being an apple partner, I assume insteon knew they were working in a solution which is why them (as well as others) haven't really invested in growing their solutions but that would be for them to answer

[filmgeek47]

Because the hub was designed specifically for homekit. Hue designed theirs to work with homekit. It's the difference in operations. Try to add homekit devices to hue's app...you can't. Now try it with Insteon...you can.

The difference in setup allows you to add different devices to one app. If everyone took hue's approach this would not be possible. The same with lutron. Everything works within their app. Outside of thermostats, try to add other stuff and you can't. Insteon could have taken this same route and everyone would be stuck with using their products the same way they've been doing... separately.

Since Insteon chose full homekit support at initial release and harmony not being homekit compatible it wouldn't work with it. Unfortunately there is no single controller that works with everything.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I still don't understand what your point is. Hue, a light company, made a hub that allows their light bulbs to work with both apple HomeKit, and the many other smarthome systems (i.e. Samsung smart hings, Amazon Alexa, etc). There is no downside or limitation with hues approach. Frankly, I would just give up on insteon and use hue exclusively for lighting, but unfortunately they have yet to build a wired HomeKit enabled light switch. All insteon needs to do is to add the functionality of their "main" hub product to the hub pro and we'd be golden. Instead, for reasons that I still don't understand, they've released this expensive half baked product with an equally half-baked new app, crippled the feature set, and then added virtually no new functionality over the last year. Nor have they taken the time to read through their user forums and comment on the state of their pro hub, or even promise some fixes down the line. I'd be willing to invest a good chunk of money into a homekit/insteon system that integrated with harmony and functioned reliably, but as they've botched this launch so badly I'm forced to continue to wait. Crossing my fingers that they'll fix things soon.

[lilyoyo1]

Because the hub was designed specifically for homekit. Hue designed theirs to work with homekit. It's the difference in operations. Try to add homekit devices to hue's app...you can't. Now try it with Insteon...you can.

The difference in setup allows you to add different devices to one app. If everyone took hue's approach this would not be possible. The same with lutron. Everything works within their app. Outside of thermostats, try to add other stuff and you can't. Insteon could have taken this same route and everyone would be stuck with using their products the same way they've been doing... separately.

Since Insteon chose full homekit support at initial release and harmony not being homekit compatible it wouldn't work with it. Unfortunately there is no single controller that works with everything.

[filmgeek47]

The Hubpro/Insteon is an aggregator app. It was designed to be used specifically with Homekit. Due to the design of the product you can control other Homekit devices which means it has limitations on what it can do outside of homekit. The Hue bridge is open. It allows you to use it with whatever you want but it is not tied to Homekit which is why you cannot take the hue bridge and add Insteon components to the app.

I still don't understand what could compel insteon to design their product this way. Philips proved that apple isn't stopping anybody from making open products that work with the HomeKit standard, so why did insteon release a halfbaked hub that only works with HomeKit? I've been in limbo for a year now waiting to buy a HomeKit hub that will support both Logitech harmony and HomeKit. At this point I'd gladly buy a different remote that is HomeKit compatible but there isn't one in existence.

What a mess...

[lilyoyo1]

The Hubpro/Insteon is an aggregator app. It was designed to be used specifically with Homekit. Due to the design of the product you can control other Homekit devices which means it has limitations on what it can do outside of homekit. The Hue bridge is open. It allows you to use it with whatever you want but it is not tied to Homekit which is why you cannot take the hue bridge and add Insteon components to the app.

[iot-abroad]

'Hue 2.0' as in Philips Hue 2.0 hub, the one they release last summer I think. It is HomeKit compatible and works with IFTTT, Echo, Harmony... etc.

I was responding to Teken's insinuation that you couldn't comply with Apple's HomeKit requirements and make your devices work with other standards. Insteon for some reason is separating HomKit compatibility from everything else for some reason. Hub 2243 is Homekit, Hub 2245 is Harmony, Echo, etc.

I wonder if this is hardware limitations, or Insteon is planning to release these features to the Hub Pro as fine tune their software.

[stusviews]

The Hub 2 (2245-222) is not HomeKit compatible. Only the Hub Pro (2243-222) is HomeKit compatible. You may be confusing iOS compatible devices (e.g., iPhone, Apple watch, etc.) with HomeKit.compatible.

[iot-abroad]

That isn't a Smartlabs / Insteon problem that is the limitation imposed by Apple on third party vendors.

Philips figured out a way to do it. The new Hue 2.0 hub is compatible with: SmartThings, IFTTT, Echo, Harmony... AND is HomeKit compatible.

[BLH]

When you are play in the Apple playpen. You have to follow their rules.

[Teken]

In case this was not made immediately apparent.

Anything that is Apple Home Kit certified will operate with the HUB Pro. The HUB Pro is a Apple dedicated product and if a product like the Harmony from Logictech does not support Apple Home Kit it obviously won't be available for use.

That isn't a Smartlabs / Insteon problem that is the limitation imposed by Apple on third party vendors.

[filmgeek47]

Seriously Insteon... At this point I'm ready to give up on purchasing any of your products. Can someone just give us a firm answer on whether the Insteon pro hub is going to get the kind of third party integrations that are regularly announced for the other Insteon hub? I'm sure I'm not alone in hesitating to invest in your product ecosystem due to a lack of clear direction. I'd even consider purchasing the non-home kit hub and forsaking Siri support, so long as you don't plan to improve the hub pro in the near future.

[filmgeek47]

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