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Insteon is being replaced by Nokia Smart Lighting

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    Insteon is being replaced by Nokia Smart Lighting

    Vaguely heard about Nokia Smart Lighting in passing, and it's "innovative" dual-band powerline and RF transmission. "Sounds like Insteon", I said.

    Turns out it is. Nokia Smart Lighting is a new Smartlabs company, and it's selling products not Insteon-branded, but definitely using the Insteon protocol for communication, and which will eventually add support for controlling Insteon devices to it's platform:

    https://nokia.smartlabsinc.com/

    This is apparently what's been being worked on since Insteon dropped off the face of the planet. Launches in September or something of this year.

    The bridge page confirms a lot: https://nokia.smartlabsinc.com/colle...roducts/bridge
    Powerline frequency 131.65 kHz
    RF frequency 915MHz
    "At launch the Nokia Smart Lighting app will support only Nokia Smart Lighting devices. We plan to also support some of the most popular Insteon products in the future. Visit nokia.smartlabsinc.com and sign up for email updates to get the latest news."

    #2
    I can't tell what's different about the Nokia "fork" of Insteon. The details are light about advancements if any have been make to this flavor of the protocol.

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      #3
      There is no fanlic. No micro modules. Nothing but the most basic of functionality.

      I would say this would be the difference, but Insteon seems to be phasing out these products as well.

      Is it too much to hope Insteon will continue to make these advanced products and maintain compatibility with the upcoming Nokia line? Keep Nokia on the shelves for the masses and maintain a more advanced feature set through the Insteon brand? It would make sense.

      But without these higher features, I could not recommend any person continue to invest in any Smarthome brand. If there's no communication on this by the Nokia launch in September, I think it's time to move on..

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        #4
        I believe they are an addition to the Insteon line.
        As the parts shortages start to go away. We could see other modules that where not top priority come back.
        Though slow moving ones maybe gone for ever.

        Comment


          #5
          Honda is having trouble with production but I don't see anyone saying that Acura is replacing the brand. Toyota & Lexus? Hyundai & Genesis? Same idea.
          Perchance Nokia will be the premium arm of Insteon with luxury features and leather seats as standard; or at least an app that works.

          Comment


            #6
            So apparently they believe it makes more sense to start over with zero market share in the crowded home automation market using the same proprietary technology than to bring new life to the existing brand.

            Comment


              #7
              It would seem to me that Insteon is run by a bunch of idiots. They have a decent product... but it could be so much better with a little care and feeding. A successful tech company continually improves its products, offers new products, and addresses the suggestions and needs of its customers. Sadly Insteon does none of this.

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                #8
                Maybe they’re creating multiple brands so they can price differently at retail vs online, and/or offer exclusives to other retailers? Perhaps Nokia will have sky high pricing online (that isn’t intended to sell) so that retailers have a margin, similar to lighting stores?

                As an example, Greenworks battery powered tools are functionally identical to those sold at Menards (Masterforce) and Lowe’s (Kobalt). Masterforce and Greenworks batteries are interchangeable but Kobalts are not (unless you file off the ridges). There must be some economic sense to that, but wouldn’t know as an outsider.

                I would hope Insteon has a major retailer lined up to promote, otherwise wouldn’t think the Nokia brand plus what seemingly little capital they have would be enough alone to get anywhere.

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                  #9
                  Insteon had an opportunity to lead their market niche, but sadly they lagged behind with poor marketing and outreach. Weak penetration into mainstream retailers like Lowes and others.
                  Their competition ZWave and Zigbee, Leviton, Smarthings compatible devices, and others have left Insteon in the dust. I don’t know if it’s possible to recover and will Nokia manage to lift them out of the rut Insteon finds itself in.
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                    #10
                    I found some additional news, which I figure is some kind of partnership between Nokia & Smartlabs.
                    https://www.digitaltrends.com/home/n...mart-lighting/
                    Last edited by sciclops; 10-18-2021, 01:34 PM.
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                      #11
                      The Nokia hub.
                      https://nokia.smartlabsinc.com/products/bridge

                      Q&A from the Nokia Smartlabs website.

                      Do I still need the Nokia Bridge if I already have a hub or bridge for other smart home products?

                      Yes. Nokia Smart Lighting products use advanced communication and control protocols that are not supported by other smart home hubs and bridges you may already have.

                      Are Insteon products supported by the Nokia Smart Lighting app?

                      At launch the Nokia Smart Lighting app will support only Nokia Smart Lighting devices. We plan to also support some of the most popular Insteon products in the future. Visit nokia.smartlabsinc.com and sign up for email updates to get the latest news.

                      Do the Nokia products work with Zigbee or Z-Wave?

                      You can group and control Nokia Smart Lighting products with Zigbee and Z-Wave products through Amazon Alexa or Google Assistant when you also have Zigbee and Z-Wave products connected to Alexa or Google Home.

                      Finally some good news!!!!
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                        #12
                        I asked Nokia support about what Insteon devices will be supported. Below is the email trail.

                        Oct 2, 2021, 9:44 PDT

                        Hello, thank you for your reply. To clarify, you stated that the Nokia Smartlabs Hub will support the Insteon protocol. Does this mean that all Insteon devices currently supported and sold by Insteon can be configured/controlled in the Nokia Hub?

                        Thank you.



                        Reply from Nokia:
                        Thank you for contacting Nokia Smart Lighting support.

                        We would like to inform you that we are planning to support some legacy devices. But unfortunately, we do not have a complete list available at this time.

                        Feel Free to write to us for any further assistance.

                        Regards,
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                          #13
                          AAAAAAAAAARGH! I just posted something in the installer section and then came an saw this. I was afraid that the Nokia lighting was going to wipe out Insteon. What a shame. Someone made some bad choices. I am an integrator and they were one of my favorite for being a reasonable price, reliable and having a lot of options. The micro modules and din rail devices were great. Not to mention the keypads and sonos compatibility. The really could have gotten into the custom integration more and put up a good fight compared to lutron. They had soooooo much potential. This is a bummer. Why would we go with Nokia smart lighting when there are so many other options that have a better selections and options of their own. Well, anyway, that was my rant on this. I will be checking in here and I will share anything I can dig up.

                          Thank you for your post.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I'm not sure what all the complaining is about. For so long everyone complained about insteon not doing anything different or bringing anything new to the table and when they do, there's nothing but complaints. Everyone comes out with new products, styles, names, etc. all while retiring the old at some point with zero complaints. Samsung will sell a $1300 phone or $4000 tv and update it them for 2 years before letting it go to the wayside and no one will blink an eye. Yet, insteon partners with someone over a $50 switch and it's the end of the world.
                            It's not like this is a whole new protocol. They've stated they'll support some older insteon devices with the new hub. I suspect those will be newer devices that are I2CS vs I1 or I2 devices. This would allow those with legacy insteon devices to use the new hub and update their switches to newer should they choose. While the new line may have new features and capabilities, overall there is absolutely no difference in the devices besides the look and the name.

                            NO, insteon is not nor ever will be able to match Lutron. For one, Lutron is 25x the size of Insteon. Bigger budget allows for much more R&D. Besides that, Lutron has a trusted and recognizable name. Walk into any nice hotel, lighting store, restaurant, etc.you'll see Lutron dummy switches. When someone first gets into smarthome, they'll take what they've seen and go with what they've know which would be lutron over insteon.

                            In regards to installers, those who are really into high end homes, generally take the time and invest in Lutron, Control4, and other's classes due to the nature of the business. Since we're talking about Lutron, you're talking about dealing with people who has more money than time so price isn't as much of an issue. Secondly, we're in business to make money. You have much greater profit margin with those systems which means theyll lean towards Lutron over insteon. They aren't looking at just profit margin but also price protection. Clients do look online to see the price of things. This limits you to how much you can mark up. Unless someone is installing Caseta, Lutron does protect their dealer pricing info. What's found online is usually the going rate (outside of eBay sales) for retail pricing which is much higher. Outside of financial factors, it's the name as well. ​​​​​It's much easier to go to a client who has a multi million dollar home and get them to buy into lutron than it is a name they've never heard of like insteon.

                            Insteon cannot survive off of legacy customers forever. They need new customers. Nokia's name is much more recognized than insteon. The people changing out switches in houses are generally 40+. They have fond memories of Nokia. Back when they were huge in the cellphone market, there aren't many people who can say anything negative about their products. This means new customers are more likely to give their products a chance than with insteon which is a name they've never heard of.... especially when you consider all the bad press about insteon thats been put online over the years. They don't care if the majority of complaints are 5+ years old. It's still a lot of negativity out there. Nokia doesn't have that. Now you have a trusted name behind your product which increases the chances of new customers to try out and hopefully add more devices to their homes over time vs. trying to keep existing customers happy that aren't really buying a lot of devices anyway.

                            Personally, I'd like to see them build out the new line with a dimmer receptacle, plug in modules, and embedded devices. In time, once they have an established line, open the devices up to 3rd party companies such as the Isy and homeseer.
                            ​​​​​

                            Comment


                              #15
                              To the previous reply,
                              I don’t think you’re capturing the purpose of my post. What I am doing is connecting with like minded Insteon consumers to figure out how to navigate the new tech market and what to do with my $1,000+ home automation Insteon investment.

                              As a consumer of Insteon products, I am voicing serious concerns for the future support of Insteon products. To be specific, the products I own. I am sure many of the Insteon consumers share this concern.

                              The way for any product or service to survive is to maintain sales and dominate its niche market.

                              Insteon has not made enough of an effort in maintaining its apps or keeping up with tech trends.

                              Years ago I had suggested the Insteon software change its software model to an open source environment, for the public’s creativity to add value to the product.

                              Today we have a whole new home automation protocol entering this niche market called Thread, it’s purpose is to have cross communication in a mesh configuration between ALL brands of home automation devices, and to make the need for proprietary hubs obsolete. Completely neutralizing any proprietary hub for local device management.

                              Where is Insteon, where is Nokia? Crickets is all I hear, I am very disappointed.

                              Why is Nokia not participating in this tech, or better yet why isn’t Nokia making a mark to compete with this tech? The fundamental concepts Thread and Insteon have in common are an independent device network mesh, and the relay capacity of signals between devices. These are common sense concepts mesh systems are designed with, perfect example wifi access points network mesh.

                              Finally, Nokia has no lists available of what Insteon devices they plan to support, and Nokia is making it clear not all devices will be supported. This news does not inspire confidence.

                              Last edited by sciclops; 11-07-2021, 08:43 PM.
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