Insteon is being replaced by Nokia Smart Lighting

[lilyoyo1]

To the previous reply,
I don’t think you’re capturing the purpose of my post. What I am doing is connecting with like minded Insteon consumers to figure out how to navigate the new tech market and what to do with my $1,000+ home automation Insteon investment.

As a consumer of Insteon products, I am voicing serious concerns for the future support of Insteon products. To be specific, the products I own. I am sure many of the Insteon consumers share this concern.

The way for any product or service to survive is to maintain sales and dominate its niche market.

Insteon has not made enough of an effort in maintaining its apps or keeping up with tech trends.

Years ago I had suggested the Insteon software change its software model to an open source environment, for the public’s creativity to add value to the product.

Today we have a whole new home automation protocol entering this niche market called Thread, it’s purpose is to have cross communication in a mesh configuration between ALL brands of home automation devices, and to make the need for proprietary hubs obsolete. Completely neutralizing Zigbee and ZWave as dominant protocols.

Where is Insteon, where is Nokia? Crickets is all I hear, I am very disappointed.

Why is Nokia not participating in this tech, or better yet why isn’t Nokia making a mark to compete with this tech? The fundamental concepts Thread and Insteon have in common are an independent device network mesh, and the relay capacity of signals between devices. These are common sense concepts mesh systems are designed with, perfect example wifi access points network mesh.

Finally, Nokia has no lists available of what Insteon devices they plan to support, and Nokia is making it clear not all devices will be supported. This news does not inspire confidence.

I understand the purpose of your post. Just have a different perspective than you. A niche market is just that...Niche. there are too many limitations for making money for a small subset of users. This is why you don't see many companies focusing on niche products anymore and the ones that do are generally moving out of it (similar to Logitech no longer making harmony remotes). The money is in making products for the masses which is what the Nokia line is geared towards.

I navigate the tech market every day for work and overall it's still the same. While the next big thing (fad) will always pop up or new features released, they all turn on, turn off, or dim, at the end of the day. The devices aren't what's special. It's the Controller's capabilities and the programmer behind it which makes a system special. Whether it's insteon, zwave, ZigBee, Ra2, C4, Savant, or Crestron, Belkin, TP-Link, or any other 2 bit company, the main focus is still the same.

Insteon doesn't need to make it's software open source, their devices are already open. Any developer can make their own software to control insteon devices. This is why the Isy, homeseer, Home assistant, openhab, hubitat, and others can control insteon devices.

My 5k investment in insteon will continue to work regardless of insteon's/Nokia's future plans. That's the true beauty of Insteon. Unlike thread or any other wifi based system, insteon will work long after the company is gone or refocused on other endeavors

You might want to check more into thread before comparing i stein to thread. Thread has been around for 6 or 7 years now touting the same promises of 1 unified system for all- yet no one has delivered. It's simply individual devices that work independently of each other vs together together in unison the way insteon and ZigBee does. Thread is nowhere close to neutralizing ZigBee or zwave- the latter which continues to grow and expand into many products categories geared towards home automation.

You're asking Nokia to come up with a list of something when it hasn't even been released yet. Most likely they'll release a list a few months after it's been released and the brand has its own foot in the door. I'm sure they want to grow the new line with new purchases not appease people with older devices who just want the new app. With the price range of the new hub, they'll lose sales to existing customers buying up the hub while missing out on people buying the devices for their new hub.

[sciclops]

To others who share my point of view. What will Nokia do to compete with the Thread technology? Thread makes the controller/hub obsolete. You no longer need a proprietary hub to control devices, just your phone, on top of that devices from different manufacturers talk to each other, and have AES encryption. This is revolutionary in the smart home marketplace. How do we address this tech with features included in the Thread environment?
To control the your home from any part of the world you will need something like Apple TV, Apple Home Mini, and others.
So far there are lighting switches, Nest Thermostat, wall plugs, light bulbs and light strips.
Google has released open source framework for anyone to develop their own software if you want. Otherwise, you just need your phone.

Thread Devices
https://www.evehome.com/en-us/thread
https://nanoleaf.me/en-US/products/?type=&product=all

—
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thre...work_protocol)
From Wikipedia
“
In July 2014, the "Thread Group" alliance was formed as a working group to aid Thread becoming an industry standard by providing Thread certification for products.[4] Initial members were ARM Holdings, Big Ass Solutions, NXP Semiconductors/Freescale, Google-subsidiary Nest Labs, OSRAM, Samsung, Silicon Labs, Somfy, Tyco International, Qualcomm, and the Yale lock company. In August 2018 Apple Inc. joined the group[5] and released its first Thread product, the HomePod Mini, in late 2020.[6]

Thread uses 6LoWPAN, which, in turn, uses the IEEE 802.15.4 wireless protocol with mesh communication, as does Zigbee and other systems. However, Thread is IP-addressable, with cloud access and AES encryption. A BSD-licensed open-source implementation of Thread, called "OpenThread", has been released by Google.

In 2019, the Connected Home over IP project (later renamed "Matter"), led by Zigbee, Google, Amazon and Apple, announced a broad collaboration to create a royalty-free standard and open-source code base to promote interoperability in home connectivity, leveraging Thread, as well as Wi-Fi and Bluetooth Low Energy.
“

[sciclops]

BTW - It seems thread isn’t going anywhere. Some of the major players are Google, Amazon, Apple, Samsung, Qualcomm, ARM holdings.

[sciclops]

I just found the membership of the Thread Group and it’s filled with prominent technology companies see link below.
https://www.threadgroup.org/thread-group

I don’t believe this is a passing fad.

Should I transition to Nokia’s tech, when they begin to fully deploy? It seems like Nokia is pretty obsolete already.

[lilyoyo1]

I just found the membership of the Thread Group and it’s filled with prominent technology companies see link below.
https://www.threadgroup.org/thread-group

I don’t believe this is a passing fad.

Should I transition to Nokia’s tech, when they begin to fully deploy? It seems like Nokia is pretty obsolete already.

While I'm not saying Nokia is the future, that doesn't mean thread is either. Thread has been around since 2015 yet still isn't a major player. Just because a bunch of companies sign on doesn't mean a thing. Those same companies are also signed on with Homekit, ZigBee, zwave, matter, and more.

Nokia doesn't need thread. What's important is for Nokia to work easily with Homekit, Alexa, and google which is does..

Most people do not know or care about the underlying tech. They just want it to work well and work with their voice assistant of choice

[sciclops]

On the Origins of Species by Natural Selection by Charles Darwin
Technology does imitate nature.
I no longer own a polaroid, DVDs, cassette decks. In a few years time I won’t be driving in a car with a combustion engine.

[Beelocks]

To that point, I have a 1908 Ford Model T that isn't supported by Ford anymore. Other automobile manufacturers have similar functioning products and I'm shocked that none of them support my obsolete vehicle either. This cost $825 when new and I'm not sure what to do with my investment.
New cars are being announced constantly and they all seem to have similar capabilities, but none of them are identical and none of them will even acknowledge the existence of my Model T.
Also, I'm concerned that future legislation might render my car unusable on public roads.

Extreme? Yes, but I'm making exactly the same argument.

[sciclops]

Some people like to collect obsolete items like manual butter churning gadgets to make butter, Manual drills that wear away your bones. Some people may even prefer candles to electric light bulbs, but what that tells you is these technologies are obsolete. No longer in production because something more practical and sustainable has replaced it.
I came across a website that may be of interest to antique car collectors, it’s how to make your old car work with modern electric motors.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/from-t-to-ev

[lilyoyo1]

None of which actually matters. How many people have you taken the time to talk to about automation/smarthome? How many can talk intimately about thread, ZigBee, zwave etc? Now, take those same people and ask them about Alexa, Google, or homekit, then watch their engagement go up because they know those systems (at least the one they use).

I deal with people daily when it comes to smarthomes/automation and one thing I take away from those experiences is that no one cares about the underlying technology. They just want it to work and work with their voice assistant in the price range they're willing to pay

[southerndoc]

I wonder if this will work with the phase coupler I had installed. :/

[SeanM]

A phase-coupler is just bridging two electrical circuits on opposite phases so a powerline carrier signal can pass between the two. It doesn't repeat or boost the signal in any way so it shouldn't affect the signaling unless there is a loose connection.

[JacktheRipper]

Yesterday I went to Costco and came across a sale for Feit smart plug-in modules (three for $14.99) and smart light bulbs (two 60W equivs with color capability for $9.99). No hub needed. I couldn't resist. I downloaded the free app and had them working in a few minutes. WiFi/IP based, so you need good 2.4GHz in your house, but who doesn't have that these days? Dimming, Groups, Scenes, Sunrise/Sunset (with offsets), etc., etc., etc. No monthly charge for anything, including remote internet control. Motion detectors, wall switches, temp and humidity sensors, cameras etc. available on Amazon for delivery tomorrow at very reasonable prices.

I bring this up, because it's hard to see a business case for Nokia that will work in this kind of competitive environment. Feit is a large ($200M+ gross), established (1978) lighting products company with world-wide resources. They, or someone else like them, will skim off 99% of the home automation market. Kids want phone apps, not DOS-like apps running on PCs. I was an early adopter of Insteon products, and ISY when I could afford it. I have a lot of money and time invested in both. The PhD in me loves tinkering with it, but the MBA in me whispers for me to move on.

I just bought a home in Oregon in a new development, and all the houses had extensive Control 4 systems installed. I'm sure it was very costly, but it requires a "pro" to configure it. The front porch lights in the majority of the houses are on 7/24 because my new neighbors are loath to pay a "pro" to come out and program the Control 4 system properly, and loath to pay a monthly charge for internet connectivity. I ripped the system out, but I'm not replacing the functionality with Insteon. I'm putting in Feit for 1/8th the cost.

[sciclops]

My thoughts exactly. I will be following the new protocol thread. The concept of multi manufacturer device intercommunication in a mesh configuration, is a formula for success, Even if your venture into Feit changes in the future, your will not be pouring a small fortune into obsolete tech. Good luck! : )

[PUEET]

Yesterday I went to Costco and came across a sale for Feit smart plug-in modules (three for $14.99) and smart light bulbs (two 60W equivs with color capability for $9.99). No hub needed. I couldn't resist. I downloaded the free app and had them working in a few minutes. WiFi/IP based, so you need good 2.4GHz in your house, but who doesn't have that these days? Dimming, Groups, Scenes, Sunrise/Sunset (with offsets), etc., etc., etc. No monthly charge for anything, including remote internet control. Motion detectors, wall switches, temp and humidity sensors, cameras etc. available on Amazon for delivery tomorrow at very reasonable prices.

I bring this up, because it's hard to see a business case for Nokia that will work in this kind of competitive environment. Feit is a large ($200M+ gross), established (1978) lighting products company with world-wide resources. They, or someone else like them, will skim off 99% of the home automation market. Kids want phone apps, not DOS-like apps running on PCs. I was an early adopter of Insteon products, and ISY when I could afford it. I have a lot of money and time invested in both. The PhD in me loves tinkering with it, but the MBA in me whispers for me to move on.

I just bought a home in Oregon in a new development, and all the houses had extensive Control 4 systems installed. I'm sure it was very costly, but it requires a "pro" to configure it. The front porch lights in the majority of the houses are on 7/24 because my new neighbors are loath to pay a "pro" to come out and program the Control 4 system properly, and loath to pay a monthly charge for internet connectivity. I ripped the system out, but I'm not replacing the functionality with Insteon. I'm putting in Feit for 1/8th the cost.

I am starting to follow this a lot more as I'm worried about my options going forward. There are 2 big things I HATE about wifi devices. 1. network congestion. I have around 50 Insteon devices. If I replace all to wifi that is going to overwell access points and residential networks. I have a cisco catalyst layer 3 switch I have a project to install as I will be putting in POE cameras so it could handle the additional traffic but most homeowners are not going to have that type of power. 2. required ISP connection. my friend has a lot of wifi enabled devices and he thinks they are the greatest thing since sliced bread but when his external provider (Xfinity/Comcrap) goes down he has no control even though he is in his home since they are all cloud-based. he said obviously it effects everyone and I said NOPE not my Insteon, the hub is in my home.
not directly related but support too. I just called smart home as one of my wired-in modules took a dump and of course not is stock and potentially on the chopping board. but he had some creative ideas and was able to help me with a problem I had with distance to my detached garage. so I know Insteon is $$$ but its like anything, you get what you pay for and I am willing to pay $50 a device if I have support and no the product will last. so I am concerned if Insteon goes away.
also going to install a ELK system so I can integrate to Insteonn :)

[sciclops]

I am following the Thread tech closely and plan to transition/replace my current devices with a mix of different manufacturers that support the Thread and Matter technology in their devices. The end result will be full inter device communication, and no proprietary hub needed.

Here is some more info on thread and matter. www.smarthomeperfected.com/best-matter-devices/

[videshik2]

Hi there, thank you for sharing this.. this was helpful :)