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    #31
    Hello Everyone,
    Thank you for sharing this string of comments. It was very informative.
    I have Insteon installed throughout my home and I don't plan to "rip it all out" as long as they work.
    I am remodeling and have purchased additional Insteon devices and I plan to go ahead and install them.
    I wonder what the future will bring?

    Comment


      #32
      I knew I should have bailed years ago - If hadn't been for fanlinc it would have been goodbye years ago? I'm done. I'm going to start replacing tomorrow.

      Comment


        #33
        We were without power for 5 days due to snow --- when the power came back, connectivity between my app installations and the hub are kaput. When I go through the connect.insteon.com via the hub log in page, all I see are rotating device updating icons. Will insteon's server ever wake back up?

        Comment


          #34
          connect.insteon.com is only for the 2242-222 Hub model. Is that what you are using or do you have the current 2245 model?

          I don't have any issues with my hub so definitely not server issues.

          Comment


            #35
            I have use for more Insteon switches/dimmers/thermostats. If you're taking yours out, I'll buy them. jeffmartin999666@gmail.com

            Comment


              #36
              Having followed this discussion.
              I have a separate question. Dimmers that are removed from one residence and moved to a new residence using arc-fault breakers. Why don't the dimmers 'talk' together, any more?

              Comment


                #37
                Here is one of the better summary explanation of the matter and thread technologies.

                “Although Thread has been around for years, it has been slow to catch on, partly because it does not specify an “application layer” – a standard set of commands and data formats that enable device communication. Like Wi-Fi, Thread defines the network protocols but not the message content. That’s intentional – it’s a feature, not a bug. Thread is an IP-based network by design, so it is inherently message-agnostic. Your home Wi-Fi router doesn’t care about the content of the messages that flow through it. Those messages can be web pages, audio, video, photos, or documents. Likewise, Thread doesn’t care if you’re sending messages to unlock a door, turn on a light, set the temperature, or raise a window shade. But without a standard that defines the content of those messages, devices from different manufacturers don’t interoperate. That’s where Matter comes in. Matter is an application layer that runs over Thread and other IP-based networks.

                https://www.forbes.com/sites/moorins...h=4fd61dd419b1

                Let me know what everyone thinks. This year is going to mark the start of iot device connectivity on a large massive scale.

                https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/dev...e-connectivity

                What we are not discussing here on this insteon forum about insteon and now Nokia devices, is the topic of security protocol communication between the communication of insteon devices. This topic is being addressed by thread and matter technologies.
                Last edited by sciclops; 01-15-2022, 07:24 AM.
                Share Science - Share Knowledge - Share Kindness

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by lilyoyo1 View Post
                  I understand the purpose of your post. Just have a different perspective than you. A niche market is just that...Niche. there are too many limitations for making money for a small subset of users. This is why you don't see many companies focusing on niche products anymore and the ones that do are generally moving out of it (similar to Logitech no longer making harmony remotes). The money is in making products for the masses which is what the Nokia line is geared towards.

                  I navigate the tech market every day for work and overall it's still the same. While the next big thing (fad) will always pop up or new features released, they all turn on, turn off, or dim, at the end of the day. The devices aren't what's special. It's the Controller's capabilities and the programmer behind it which makes a system special. Whether it's insteon, zwave, ZigBee, Ra2, C4, Savant, or Crestron, Belkin, TP-Link, or any other 2 bit company, the main focus is still the same.

                  Insteon doesn't need to make it's software open source, their devices are already open. Any developer can make their own software to control insteon devices. This is why the Isy, homeseer, Home assistant, openhab, hubitat, and others can control insteon devices.

                  My 5k investment in insteon will continue to work regardless of insteon's/Nokia's future plans. That's the true beauty of Insteon. Unlike thread or any other wifi based system, insteon will work long after the company is gone or refocused on other endeavors

                  You might want to check more into thread before comparing i stein to thread. Thread has been around for 6 or 7 years now touting the same promises of 1 unified system for all- yet no one has delivered. It's simply individual devices that work independently of each other vs together together in unison the way insteon and ZigBee does. Thread is nowhere close to neutralizing ZigBee or zwave- the latter which continues to grow and expand into many products categories geared towards home automation.

                  You're asking Nokia to come up with a list of something when it hasn't even been released yet. Most likely they'll release a list a few months after it's been released and the brand has its own foot in the door. I'm sure they want to grow the new line with new purchases not appease people with older devices who just want the new app. With the price range of the new hub, they'll lose sales to existing customers buying up the hub while missing out on people buying the devices for their new hub.
                  I'm way late to this thread, but I've been following the Insteon/Nokia story for some time. I've been a customer since 1985 - I like to say I've been around so long, I go back to X-9!* My recent experience tells me that you, lilyoyo, may be a little naive on this. While I agree with much of what you stated above, I think you may be in for a surprise if you think that "Insteon will work long after the company is gone or refocused on other endeavors." I'm sure you know by now that many of the products, while basically pretty solid, have a habit of giving up the ghost after a couple of years. At least, I have experienced a great many failures in terms of switches, remotes, and KeyPadLincs. And it was just such a failure that opened my eyes to something: Insteon seems to be shrinking their product line, and rather stealthily. For example, you can no longer get a plug-in relay module. I found that out a few months ago when I perused the website. The product showed as "sold out". That comes across as a temporary situation, but when I inquired with customer support as to the date it would start shipping again, they informed me that the product was discontinued permanently. Thus, it joins a cavalcade of oldies but goodies over the years:
                  • RemoteLinc 2440
                  • ControlLinc (both versions)
                  • KeypadLinc Enclosure 2402
                  • Anything Ivory
                  • AC Pass-thru outlets on their dimmer and relay modules
                  • Backwards compatibility with X-10 (Yeah, I know, so what? But it IS still out there...)
                  And several items are currently listed as "Sold Out." Now, I'd LIKE to believe they are victims of this temporary supply chain crunch, but I can't say for sure, unless I contact customer service. I'm most worried about the KeyPadLinc relay version, which I need for some fluorescents. Bottom line, I don't think we can fully trust Insteon/Nokia's public pronouncements at this point.

                  Especially since...well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the new buyer of SmartLabs was Richmond Capital Partners, yes? Has anyone bothered to look them up? First, they are out of London, UK. I don't know exactly what to make of that, but they promote themselves as a "business management consultant specializing in print, packaging, and marketing businesses." In other words, they are at best interim owners, sprucing the place up with the intention of flipping it. Chances are, they don't really give a hoot about product integrity, customer loyalty, brand recognition, etc. They are basically Mitt Romneying the company.

                  This is all speculation (no pun intended). I could be wrong. But I would very wary at this point of committing to a big Insteon install, until it all shakes out.
                  __________
                  *This is only half-joking. I had a BSR Recotron System, which was internally known as Project X-9. Their next project was known as Project X-10...but they rushed it to market before they could hang a permanent name on it...so they stayed with X-10!
                  Jim Speiser
                  Payson, Arizona

                  Insteon/X-10 since 1985 | 200+ Insteon devices (and one Zigbee!) | USB PLM | HomeSeer 3 | Current WAF Level: -12

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by JimSpy View Post

                    I'm way late to this thread, but I've been following the Insteon/Nokia story for some time. I've been a customer since 1985 - I like to say I've been around so long, I go back to X-9!* My recent experience tells me that you, lilyoyo, may be a little naive on this. While I agree with much of what you stated above, I think you may be in for a surprise if you think that "Insteon will work long after the company is gone or refocused on other endeavors." I'm sure you know by now that many of the products, while basically pretty solid, have a habit of giving up the ghost after a couple of years. At least, I have experienced a great many failures in terms of switches, remotes, and KeyPadLincs. And it was just such a failure that opened my eyes to something: Insteon seems to be shrinking their product line, and rather stealthily. For example, you can no longer get a plug-in relay module. I found that out a few months ago when I perused the website. The product showed as "sold out". That comes across as a temporary situation, but when I inquired with customer support as to the date it would start shipping again, they informed me that the product was discontinued permanently. Thus, it joins a cavalcade of oldies but goodies over the years:
                    • RemoteLinc 2440
                    • ControlLinc (both versions)
                    • KeypadLinc Enclosure 2402
                    • Anything Ivory
                    • AC Pass-thru outlets on their dimmer and relay modules
                    • Backwards compatibility with X-10 (Yeah, I know, so what? But it IS still out there...)
                    And several items are currently listed as "Sold Out." Now, I'd LIKE to believe they are victims of this temporary supply chain crunch, but I can't say for sure, unless I contact customer service. I'm most worried about the KeyPadLinc relay version, which I need for some fluorescents. Bottom line, I don't think we can fully trust Insteon/Nokia's public pronouncements at this point.

                    Especially since...well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the new buyer of SmartLabs was Richmond Capital Partners, yes? Has anyone bothered to look them up? First, they are out of London, UK. I don't know exactly what to make of that, but they promote themselves as a "business management consultant specializing in print, packaging, and marketing businesses." In other words, they are at best interim owners, sprucing the place up with the intention of flipping it. Chances are, they don't really give a hoot about product integrity, customer loyalty, brand recognition, etc. They are basically Mitt Romneying the company.

                    This is all speculation (no pun intended). I could be wrong. But I would very wary at this point of committing to a big Insteon install, until it all shakes out.
                    __________
                    *This is only half-joking. I had a BSR Recotron System, which was internally known as Project X-9. Their next project was known as Project X-10...but they rushed it to market before they could hang a permanent name on it...so they stayed with X-10!
                    Im far from naive. As I stated, I do this for a living so it's paramount I'm up to date with product lines. I don't buy products simply because of someone's pronouncement. I buy things based on price, availability, and scalability, flexibility, and of it fits the rest of my requirements. While I really like the Nokia line, the fact that they are trying to incorporate it with a cloud based hub only makes it a non starter for me. In regards to insteon, the changes they've made still doesn't change the fact that if they disappeared tomorrow, I wouldn't know a difference because my stuff would still work.

                    I guess you don't understand the difference between a device failing vs a system no longer working otherwise you wouldve understood what i meant when I said if insteon ceased to exist, my system would continue to work. If insteon ceased to exist and their servers were disconnect, you wouldn't be able to use the hub. However, you could use an ISY, homeseer, HA, or a few other controllers to keep your system running. Even outside of that, links are local to devices so your buttons and switches would continue to work.

                    Being around since '85 doesn't say much about your insteon knowledge since insteon didn't come to fruition until 2005. Sure it may help with X10 but X10 is really irrelevant in today's world.

                    Product lines are constantly updated with newer products while legacy products get phased out. Sure, there will be a segment of society who doesn't like change but companies design stuff to sell to the majority, not the few. Most people in society does not want a huge remote like the 2440 or the controllinc. Look around today, how many companies make remotes the size of either one?

                    Passthrough outlets is a thing of the past. They were removed as products were redesigned to become smaller and rf was added. Once again, times change. My phone pretty much requires a case and the battery doesn't last nearly as long as older devices.....but those tradeoffs are well worth it for how they operate today vs back then. The same applies now.

                    Back to X10....As you said, "so what"!!!??? Yes, there are still people buying x10 for some reason. Why is it insteon's job to continue making stuff compatible with an irrelevant system 17 years later? It's not. Had it been up to me, I would've removed support 10 years ago. I'm not going to degrade a better product for someone to use it as a lesser product.

                    Last but not least, you should do a better Google search because you are wrong about who purchased Smartlabs (but, I'm the naive one). The company that bought smartlabs is not the same one you're talking about. This group is based out of Seattle Washington and owned by Rob Lilleness.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      This is an interesting thread. Primarily so because I too have $3-$4K invested in Insteon … 40+ devices. I purchased most of my devices in 2012 thru 2015. It’s been about six years since I had to touch my extensive system. But, just last week, my 2012 Hub died. While the latest Hub is out of stock, they keep some in reserve for people, like me, who have Hubs that die. So, I was able to purchase a new Hub and completely reinstalled my system. It’s been very painful.

                      Installing a new Hub was a eye opening experience. I wanted to add many additional motion sensors, in-line linc devices with sensing to marry up with floodlights, et al … they are no longer available. As I researched what’s going on, I was shocked to find out that SmartLabs/Smarthome had been acquired by a private equity group in 2017. Then I read about the addition of Nokia’s line in 2019. Then, the aggressive trimming of the product line, elimination of numerous products. Here we are, 5 years after new owners/CEO, and the Insteon community has no clue what’s going on with the future of the company or it’s products. The last major update was almost 2 years ago, and it was a cursory update, at best.

                      This is an absolutely inexcusable situation, to leave your entire customer base in the dark for this long a period of time. It does not bode well for the future of the company, it’s products, it’s customers. Sensing future failure here, I started researching alternatives.

                      There are many mentions in this thread to moving over to ISY to control Insteon devices. How? You need a PLM to connect an ISY to your Insteon devices. They no longer sell the PLM! Then, in looking into alternatives, it’s a maddening situation … far too many companies, devices, different technologies, approaches. It’s absolutely mind numbing. I am wisely frozen in place and have chosen to do absolutely nothing now, or in the intermediate term.

                      We are at a point in the future of home automation where there are far too many players, products, technologies. The complexity is too great for consumers to even want to engage. A big shakeout is on the horizon. Many players, technologies will simply fade away … until we get to a point of just a few remaining. it’s not wise to make further investment in home automation until that happens.

                      I have very little confidence that Insteon survives. In being owned by private equity, it will be starved of sufficient capital to be a significant player in this space. And, it’s technology is not valuable enough to be acquired by a deep enough pocketed player to allow Insteon to survive. That’s my take. And, I won’t put another dollar into Insteon products. Nor, will I venture into any other home automation products. There’s simply too much risk of short term technology obsolescence right now.
                      Last edited by JWillis; 01-31-2022, 05:09 AM.

                      Comment


                      • sciclops
                        sciclops commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I have a motion sensor you can buy from me. It’s in new condition.

                      #41
                      Originally posted by JWillis View Post

                      I have very little confidence that Insteon survives. In being owned by private equity, it will be starved of sufficient capital to be a significant player in this space. And, it’s technology is not valuable enough to be acquired by a deep enough pocketed player to allow Insteon to survive. That’s my take. And, I won’t put another dollar into Insteon products. Nor, will I venture into any other home automation products. There’s simply too much risk of short term technology obsolescence right now.
                      Amen, Amen, and Amen.

                      Jim Speiser
                      Payson, Arizona

                      Insteon/X-10 since 1985 | 200+ Insteon devices (and one Zigbee!) | USB PLM | HomeSeer 3 | Current WAF Level: -12

                      Comment


                        #42
                        This is so sad. I have over 100 insteon devices controlled by an ISY994i in my house, so I'm really not looking forward to reinventing my home automation. I have a few zwave devices and they were a pain to set up, are not as reliable or fast as the Insteon switches and are ugly to boot. Believe it or not, when I needed to add a new controlled outlet, I opted for an X-10 Pro device. It's still compatible with my ISY and Insteon PLM and they are super cheap and super simple to set up. Of course, this is just an on/off device and not a dimmer that is part of a scene. That would have made a huge difference. At this point I figure it doesn't make sense to spend money on a technology that may be dead or invest in a new one that may not last. I'm just hoping that my system holds up long enough for another player to become dominant in the market. I'll miss you Insteon :-(

                        Comment


                          #43
                          Latest update on the IoT wars. The war is over!

                          https://www.forbes.com/sites/moorins...h=30da9eb219b1


                          CES 2022 product announcements signal the end of the consumer IoT “connectivity wars” that began over 20 years ago. Two complementary industry standards are transforming the Internet of Things from a hodge-podge of incompatible gadgets into a scalable industry with interoperable, plug-and-play products from multiple suppliers:
                          1. Matter – “Lingua franca” for the Internet of Things
                          2. Thread – IP-based mesh network for low power devices

                          Gold Rush

                          With Matter and Thread, consumers can buy connected products such as door locks, window shades, light switches, thermostats, and cameras that plug-and-play with existing Wi-Fi networks and home ecosystems such as Alexa, Google Assistant, HomeKit, and SmartThings. There’s no vendor lock-in, nothing extra to buy, no complicated hub to configure, and setup is a few clicks on a smartphone app. Although this vision sounds too good to be true, the open specifications that make it possible have been in the works for years and are now widely adopted. At CES, big consumer brands and chip companies demonstrated Matter running in real-world devices, dozens of companies announced new products supporting Matter and Thread, and hundreds more are on the way. The trend towards Matter and Thread is rapidly becoming a gold rush as influential companies stake claims. Thread and Matter are eliminating IoT scaling barriers by making multivendor interoperability practical over industry-standard networks using off-the-shelf silicon. Here’s how it all works.

                          Share Science - Share Knowledge - Share Kindness

                          Comment


                            #44
                            Originally posted by BLH View Post
                            I believe they are an addition to the Insteon line.
                            As the parts shortages start to go away. We could see other modules that where not top priority come back.
                            Though slow moving ones maybe gone for ever.
                            Insteons shortages were there long before covid.

                            Comment


                              #45
                              Originally posted by PJL

                              Really? When I purchased 43 devices in late 2019 I had not issue getting the devices.
                              Were any of them KeyPadLinc Relays? KPL desktop enclosures? ....anything ivory?
                              Jim Speiser
                              Payson, Arizona

                              Insteon/X-10 since 1985 | 200+ Insteon devices (and one Zigbee!) | USB PLM | HomeSeer 3 | Current WAF Level: -12

                              Comment

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