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Can the Motion Sensor II be configured to always issue On commands?

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  • Can the Motion Sensor II be configured to always issue On commands?

    I have a scene called Garage Lights that has a 2477S On-Off switch as a controller/responder, and a Motion Sensor II as a controller/responder. I don't really think the MS II is acting like a responder at all, at least the way I have it configured. Here's the problem: If the motion sensor detects motion, it issues an On command for the lights, then waits for no motion detected within a timeout value, and then issues an Off command if the timeout is reached. All that is good and expected. However, if the lights are turned off by the 2744S while the MS II is still waiting to issue its Off command, the MS never issues another On command if motion is subsequently detected, thinking the lights are already on. Is there any way to configure the MS II so that it always issues an On command if it detects motion, even it it thinks the lights are already on? Can it be done if it's powered by a USB cable?

  • #2
    The motion sensor doesn't know the state of a device. So the device state is irrelevant to what the MS does. It will only send an on command based on how it's configured. What are you using with your motion sensor

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    • #3
      The manual does not say it can be a Responder. Even if the 2477S is sending an On and Off to the Motion Sensor. It may not be capable of responding.

      The Motion Sensor goes into a power saving mode to conserve the battery. Even if an On or Off from the 2477S is being sent. The Motion Sensor is power saving and will not receive it. If the Motion sensor is powered by an optional USB wall wart. It probably is staying alive and not power saving.
      Last edited by BLH; 03-24-2019, 03:31 AM.

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      • #4
        The very nature of the motion sensor (or any sensor) only allows it to control and not respond as it is there for 1 job only.. Using this post for example. You turn off the light. Obviously you want it off. Your wife walks in 20 seconds later. Does it turn the light on or leave it off?
        Last edited by lilyoyo1; 03-23-2019, 06:57 PM.

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        • #5
          Assuming that you are controlling/setup with an Insteon Hub?

          Unfortunately, I do not believe the MS II can be configured as you describe. The original Motion Sensor (MS I) had a setting called "Occupancy Mode" that was present in the Insteon Hub App interface for the device. When this was set to on, the MS I would respond as you describe (If I recall correctly, it's been awhile since I used my MS I). I have not found a similar setting for the MS II units.


          Your setting of the MS II as a Responder doesn't make sense - it's not possible to set the MS II as anything but a Controller.

          I have a nearly identical scene with an MS II controlling the lights in my garage. I switched from an original MS to the MS II in order to gain the ability to press the button on the MS II and disable motion sensing for a period of time (to avoid the lights going off while working under a car or similar task).

          I've grown accustomed to simply not using the switch in the garage and just letting the MS II control the lights (i.e, letting them turn off when the time elapses).

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Steveo369 View Post
            Assuming that you are controlling/setup with an Insteon Hub?

            Unfortunately, I do not believe the MS II can be configured as you describe. The original Motion Sensor (MS I) had a setting called "Occupancy Mode" that was present in the Insteon Hub App interface for the device. When this was set to on, the MS I would respond as you describe (If I recall correctly, it's been awhile since I used my MS I). I have not found a similar setting for the MS II units.
            The owners manual shows it is capable of only on mode. There's a place to configure they in the hub app.
            Last edited by lilyoyo1; 03-26-2019, 02:41 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by lilyoyo1 View Post

              The owners manual shows it is capable of only on mode. There's a place to configure they in the hub app.
              Are you keyboard conjecturing from the owners manual, or do you own both an MS 1 and an MS II?

              On-only mode is not the same thing. Both the MS 1 and MS II are capable of Only-on mode, which will not solve the OP's issue, as this mode simply doesn't turn the responder device off (no countdown timer).

              The edit device screen in the iOS hub app for the MS 1 contains an "Occupancy Mode", which is not present in the MS II. Note also that Occupancy Mode is NOT mentioned whatsoever in the MS 1 2842-222 Quickstart guide, and there is also no complete Owner's Manual for the MS 1 on the Insteon website, only the Quickstart guide.

              The undocumented Occupancy Mode is discussed further here: https://forum.insteon.com/forum/main...occupancy-mode

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              • #8
                In regards to keyboard conjecturing, I've been using insteon in much greater detail than you as I also install devices for a living. Occupancy mode would not have helped with his situation at all for what he was trying to accomplish and how he uses his setup.

                I was specifically referring to the only on command as I had already posted previously that it could not be a responder and that is what he asked for. The first version nor the new version is capable of being a responder at all.

                What the op is trying to do cannot be accomplished with the hub regardless of which sensor he had. He would need it to be in only on mode with additional logic programmed into it. His problem has been taken care of in another forum.
                Last edited by lilyoyo1; 03-27-2019, 01:18 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by lilyoyo1 View Post
                  I've been using insteon in much greater detail than you....
                  YGTBFKM. If your previous post wasn't conjecture, the above quote certainly was. You don't have a clue about how much "detail" I've used Insteon in.

                  con·jec·ture
                  an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.

                  Originally posted by lilyoyo1 View Post
                  Occupancy mode would not have helped with his situation at all for what he was trying to accomplish and how he uses his setup.
                  This statement is completely wrong. Please carefully re-read the OP. His first actual question is:
                  Is there any way to configure the MS II so that it always issues an On command if it detects motion, even it it thinks the lights are already on?
                  Occupancy Mode on the MS 1 would accomplish exactly this, with the hub. I know this for a fact (which, as it so happens, is an antonym for "conjecture").


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Steveo369 View Post

                    YGTBFKM. If your previous post wasn't conjecture, the above quote certainly was. You don't have a clue about how much "detail" I've used Insteon in.

                    con·jec·ture
                    an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.



                    This statement is completely wrong. Please carefully re-read the OP. His first actual question is:


                    Occupancy Mode on the MS 1 would accomplish exactly this, with the hub. I know this for a fact (which, as it so happens, is an antonym for "conjecture").

                    ​​​​​​Since you want to be a know it all, my statement was more of an assumption rather than conjecture. While the definition of conjecture may be correct, it was improperly used by you. If you want to call someone out while trying to be smart, at least use the correct terminology. In the end the only person that cares on here is you.

                    Instead of trying to make yourself look like a know it all, you would realize occupancy and always on will accomplish the sames thing. The best way on how to proceed to solve any given problem can vary and depends on the person responding. Neither way will work however. If he simply uses the motion sensor yes occupancy can work. However since he still wants to physically turn off the lights it will not work for him because it will send the on command every single time. Because of that, manually turnimt the light off can still turn it right back on. By using his ISY, the op can set his motion sensor in only on mode and use programs to handle the off. This allows him to let the sensor turn on lights, keep them on while in the room as well as manually turning them off when he exits

                    Regardless of all this, he has his answer from another forum and all is well. Have a good day.
                    Last edited by lilyoyo1; 03-30-2019, 10:39 AM.

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                    • #11
                      With all due respect (I will leave you to determine how much is due), you are still incorrect in stating that Occupancy Mode and On-Only Mode are the same. The behavior is different, which may be important to users with Insteon Hubs.

                      Occupancy mode on the MS 1 would operate exactly as the OP would like it to, were he using a Hub. Occupancy mode effectively re-broadcasts an On command AND resets the internal timer each time motion is detected. In the use case as described by the OP, if the MS1 controlled light is manually turned off with another source or switch, and motion is detected, it will turn the light back on, and then automatically turn it back off at the end of the timer.

                      On-only mode will never automatically turn off the light, as this mode completely disables the internal timer and requires a program or other device to issue an off command. The Occupancy Mode and On-only Mode are distinctly different, and (for whatever reason) not both available on both the MS1 & MS2.

                      It's good news that the OP's issue was solved by utilizing the advanced features of an ISY on another forum. There was no indication in his post (4 posts to this forum total) that he had an ISY, and my assumption was that he was using a Hub, and thus I was attempting to be helpful with direct, first hand knowledge of a specific and marginally documented behavior.

                      I am not attempting to be a know-it-all. Simply trying to ensure that accurate information is provided and archived on this forum for future reference. Your continued insistence on tacking mis-information onto this thread will certainly confuse online generations long after we've both retired from forums over differences in perception on the use of synonyms.

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                      • #12
                        I too am here for other users. This is why I mentioned the all on so that people are aware it exists if they didn't already. You chose to try and be smart with your response which is why I responded in kind. The same goes for your last post. For someone trying to come across concerned you keep going back to the same insignificant comments. Don't get upset because someone calls you out for incorrect usage when you use words incorrectly. You put that out there when a difference of opinion could've been just that. Once you've learned more or helped much more than you have then come at me about accurate Information. In the end, this forum and most members here are here to help guide those who need it.

                        As I already mentioned, your way would work for how you want to do things. I have acknowledged that. However he had already stated how HE uses his system and it is not the same as you. Which is why I was saying it wouldn't work that way nor would a standard only on work. Even with the hub, it's technically possible if one uses stringify for the additional logic that's needed. The downside is with stringify being cloud based performance may vary.

                        I don't try to change behaviors but give answers on how to achieve their desired outcome based on how they use their system. That way, someone in a similar situation can copy what he did for the desired results. As I said in my previous post there are multiple ways of achieving ones desired results. You saw the one you had which can help some. I added additional that can help others.
                        Last edited by lilyoyo1; 04-03-2019, 01:26 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Jacktheripper,

                          Here is a point that I’m not sure was made that clear. The longer your time out of the motion before it sends a time out an Off command is one thing that can effect the speed in which it will send another On command.

                          The other thing that can can effect the speed in which it sends another On command is how long you were in the room before you turned off the switch manually.

                          The motion will become less responsive the more you engage with. This delay in responsiveness is to conserve battery life.

                          Botton line is this: you may never get the quick reaction you are expecting if you walk in the room and the motion turns on the switch and then you turn it right back off manually then walk right back in and expect the motion to pick you right back up.

                          The MS II comes in occupancy mode right out of the box.

                          i do agree with lilyoyo1’s comments though.
                          Last edited by SteveL; 04-02-2019, 06:58 AM.

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