2334-232 Problem????

[TFitzpatri8]

I just reread your original post. Unless my eyes are failing me, this is the first time you mentioned anything ‘flashing’, just that you tripped a circuit breaker when you energized the first 2334.

I’m still not certain what is causing the variety of issues, but immediately tripping a circuit breaker requires something drastic—it isn’t impossible that the switch was defective (manufacturing defects happen), but the more common scenario is a wiring short. That could happen if conductors are stripped too far back, allowing copper not inside the wire nut of either the line or load to contact a ground or neutral wire when you push the device back into the box of either the keypad or one of the wired loads.

The other way that could happen is if the line and neutral are mixed up in either the keypad or the load boxes. I’ve seen some dangerous, unconventional wiring in my time, where some previous owner/handyman has decided it was easier to switch a neutral connection instead of line, and that could set you up for an accidental short. In my experience, the only symptom I’ve seen from an incompatible but dimmable LED load has been flickering, never something as dramatic as a short and tripped breaker.

Was this keypad on a circuit originally wired as part of a conventional multi-way circuit? That, too, could explain how you might end up with a short in the wiring to a load.

[kendropbox]

Lilyoyo, I have responded in red.. Well, red does not work so my response is in bold..

I just reread your original post. Unless my eyes are failing me, this is the first time you mentioned anything ‘flashing’, just that you tripped a circuit breaker when you energized the first 2334

>> You are correct, I did not elaborate on it.

I’m still not certain what is causing the variety of issues, but immediately tripping a circuit breaker requires something drastic—it isn’t impossible that the switch was defective (manufacturing defects happen), but the more common scenario is a wiring short. That could happen if conductors are stripped too far back, allowing copper not inside the wire nut of either the line or load to contact a ground or neutral wire when you push the device back into the box of either the keypad or one of the wired loads.

>> I assumed that was possibly the problem when the first dimmer blew, but that was not the case when I removed the switch plate and dimmer.

The other way that could happen is if the line and neutral are mixed up in either the keypad or the load boxes.

>> Thinking the same, I ohm’d the circuit, and eventually also checked it live. Ground and common and ground and hot were correct, and ground was not floating… I also removed each holder and validated all connections not only with the volt/ohm meter, but also with a signal tracer… Only a one switch circuit was found as I was sure of…

I’ve seen some dangerous, unconventional wiring in my time, where some previous owner/handyman has decided it was easier to switch a neutral connection instead of line, and that could set you up for an accidental short. In my experience, the only symptom I’ve seen from an incompatible but dimmable LED load has been flickering, never something as dramatic as a short and tripped breaker.

>>> That surprised me also. As I said, the 2486 worked for years with those non-compatible LED bulbs..

Was this keypad on a circuit originally wired as part of a conventional multi-way circuit? >>>No, see above… That, too, could explain how you might end up with a short in the wiring to a load.

>>> It was definitely a learning experience…

[TFitzpatri8]

Something else intermittent? Maybe the grounding wire contacting something, or scratched or disintegrating wire insulation, or water infiltration?

If your lighting still works with a manual switch, there’s no way it can have such a high inrush current that it trips a breaker.

I’m concerned that you haven’t landed on a reasonable explanation yet. If it is an unsolved intermittent problem, it could be dangerous.

[SteveL]

This may or may not be related but if the switches are connected to AFCI breakers then the neutral wires need to be handled in a specific way. If you have two neutrals in a box and connect to the wrong one the breaker will trip upon reset. Here is the test. Air gap the switch and with the breaker Off wire it up. Turn the breaker on and then push in the air gap. If it doesn't trip and you are using AFCI but was tripping when you just turn the breaker on then you likely have a neutral issue. If this is not your issue then disregard the comments.

[kendropbox]

TFitzpatri8 Response in bold & underline (also prior message was incorrectly addressed, sorry)

Something else intermittent? Maybe the grounding wire contacting something, or scratched or disintegrating wire insulation, or water infiltration? >>>I checked all of that, no water and no disintegrating wires…

If your lighting still works with a manual switch, there’s no way it can have such a high inrush current that it trips a breaker. >>> That is what surprised me also….

I’m concerned that you haven’t landed on a reasonable explanation yet. If it is an unsolved intermittent problem, it could be dangerous. >>> You are correct, but it has been working since I removed the LED bulbs, and I could not find anything wrong with the circuit/or electrical hookup…

Currently the bulbs are incandescent, and working well… I am reluctant to put the old LED bulbs back in as I am sure it will blow the 2334 again… However, those LED bulbs worked for years with the 2486, and with the manual switch… And it was after the manual switch worked that I installed and blew out the third 2334….

[kendropbox]

SteveL: Thank you and others for the input and suggestions. The breakers are not AFCI breakers.

[TFitzpatri8]

Just to clarify—all three keypads still power up, you just can’t measure any voltage on the load wire? The triac might be damaged, but the power supply and logic silicon must still be intact for them to power up and toggle button backlighting on and off. Very curious.

If it were me, I’d be tempted to test further those three units that you already removed from service. I’d use a power cord plugged into a power strip with built-in breaker powering a keypad and connected to an incandescent load. Be sure that line connects to line, neutral to neutral, and the load connects to load and to neutral. That would tell me if the triac was still working. If that worked, I’d try one of the suspect loads. Using a power cord to power the keypad and load would rule out any hidden issues with a fixture or wiring, you’d just be testing the keypad triac and compatibility with each load.

[kendropbox]

Just to clarify—all three keypads still power up, you just can’t measure any voltage on the load wire? The triac might be damaged, but the power supply and logic silicon must still be intact for them to power up and toggle button backlighting on and off. Very curious. >>>That is correct. The switch still works from the buttons, just no output..

If it were me, I’d be tempted to test further those three units that you already removed from service. I’d use a power cord plugged into a power strip with built-in breaker powering a keypad and connected to an incandescent load. Be sure that line connects to line, neutral to neutral, and the load connects to load and to neutral. That would tell me if the triac was still working. If that worked, I’d try one of the suspect loads. Using a power cord to power the keypad and load would rule out any hidden issues with a fixture or wiring, you’d just be testing the keypad triac and compatibility with each load. >>> Thanks, I’ll try that in the next day or two and let you know…