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  • 2334-232 Problem????

    I have had a 2486DAL.6 keypad dimmer switch controlling three 15 watt LED lights for the last "umpteen" years without any difficultly.. That switch stopped operating a week or so ago. I then ordered a 2334-232 6 keypad dimmer switch to replace the old 2486DAL.6.

    Step 1:
    I hooked up the new 2334-232 dimmer, one wire at a time replacing the old 2486D. When I restored power, the circuit breaker popped. I checked out all the wiring, which was all correct. I again restored the circuit breaker, and the new 2334-232 lights up, and the "power on" and "power off" button appear to work, showing the "on" light and the "off" light on the new switch... However, those outside lights do not come on at all.

    Step 2:
    I rechecked the wiring and everything is wired correctly. So I assumed the new 2334-232 dimmer was/is defective...

    Step 3:
    I then replace the "defective" (new) 2334-232 dimmer switch, one wire at a time, with another new 2334-232 dimmer. And when I turned the circuit breaker back on, the "power on" button does control the "power on" light, and the "power off" button controls the "power off" light, just as one would expect... Again, however, the outside lights do not operate… same result as with the first 2334-232 dimmer...

    Step 4:
    I now wonder and assume that I must have some defect in the wiring of those outside lights. So I pull the switches out and start diagnosing the assumed defective light circuit. All ohm measurements are as expected and nothing appears out of the ordinary. All bulbs ohm reading are correct also…

    Step 5:
    I now put a standard off / on switch in place of the insteon dimmer switch, and as expected, those outside lights come on, just as one would expect. And touching the wires finds the temperature of the wires to be cool…

    Step 6:
    I now install a third new 2334-232 dimmer switch, and again, the “on” and “off” buttons work, but the outside lights still do not come on….

    Step 7:
    After reading that at one point in time those dimmer switches were not handling LED bulbs well, I replace one of the bulbs with a 60 watt incandescent bulb, and the switch still does not activate those outdoor lights…

    Now, the question:
    Have I been sent 3 defective Insteon dimmer switches???? Or is something else happening that I am not aware of????


    Any suggestions???? And has anyone else had a similar problem?

    Thanks


  • #2
    I highly doubt that you have 3 defective switches....especially with all still experiencing the same exact issues. Was this kpl part of a 3 way where there is another insteon switch controlling the outside lights? If so, it must be linked to the other switch

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the response. That circuit is NOT part of a three way switch. Single switch only... And has been working with the 2486DAL6 for years...

      Comment


      • #4
        I can understand why lilyoyo would ask, since that sounds just like a situation where someone flipped a forgotten switch and inadvertently disabled a circuit.

        My first instinct would be to bench-test it—power the keypad with a lamp cord, then verify that you get voltage on the load wire when on. That rules out any in-wall wiring issues.

        Comment


        • #5
          TFitzpatri8, Thanks.
          I did connect an extension cord to the neutral (white) and controlled (red) wires of the last 2334 dimmer, and the results are no outpu (switch still indicates off & on)t.

          I also performed a live voltage check on all the wiring, and I do not find anything out of range/ expectation... I hesitate putting in a forth dimmer switch as I am baffled by the problem, especially when Step 5: (above) works the lights...

          And Insteon has NOT responded to my emails sent two days ago...

          I intend to remove all the LED bulbs before putting in another 2334-232....

          Thanks again

          Comment


          • #6
            Do you have line and neutral reversed, either at the switch or at a fixture? That would provide power to the keypad but not to the load. Verify that you get full line voltage when you measure from ground to the wire you connected to the keypad’s black wire.

            Comment


            • #7
              Step 7:
              I remove the last defective 2334-232 and put in a forth 2334-232. This time I only hook up the extension cord with the incandescent light bulb. That works…

              Step 8:
              I remove all light bulbs from the 3 outdoor holders, and I now remove the extension cord and hook up the three light circuit again. I restore power and screw in one incandescent bulb and the switch works as expected, turning on and off and dimming the incandescent bulb…

              The LED bulbs, which have worked with the 2486DAL.6 keypad dimmer switch for years, are TCP 10BR30 bulbs, which are rated as dimmable..

              So now I wonder if I have been sent “Old Stock” Insteon switches that still have the “LED” problem????

              And I am still waiting for Insteon to contact me…

              Comment


              • #8
                Put incandescent bulbs in the remaining light holders, and it continues to work as expected... Just noticed step 7 above should be step 8, and step 8 above should be step 9...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kendropbox View Post
                  Step 7:
                  I remove the last defective 2334-232 and put in a forth 2334-232. This time I only hook up the extension cord with the incandescent light bulb. That works…

                  Step 8:
                  I remove all light bulbs from the 3 outdoor holders, and I now remove the extension cord and hook up the three light circuit again. I restore power and screw in one incandescent bulb and the switch works as expected, turning on and off and dimming the incandescent bulb…

                  The LED bulbs, which have worked with the 2486DAL.6 keypad dimmer switch for years, are TCP 10BR30 bulbs, which are rated as dimmable..

                  So now I wonder if I have been sent “Old Stock” Insteon switches that still have the “LED” problem????

                  And I am still waiting for Insteon to contact me…
                  There's no "old stock" of insteon kpls that has an LED issue. I've have used different revs of the 2334-xxx since they came out (including beta versions) successfully with different types of LED bulbs. Unfortunately not all LED bulbs are created equally so what 1 bulb does another one may not.

                  The changes between the new version and the 2486d may make it incompatible with your particular bulb while the older switch does work with it (the same could also happen with a new bulb and older switch).

                  Now that you've determined the switches do work, I would recommend a different LED bulb. The ones I use are the Philips warm glow and feit enhance bulbs. No issues with either one and low dimming. Cree bulbs also work well though some people report hearing buzzing from their bulbs.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    With all due respect Lilyoyo, if you do a search you will find that Insteon did have, and still does have, problems using the 2334-xxx with certain LED bulbs… Although the 2486DAL supported other LED bulbs, apparently some blinked on low settings and/or made noise. But they did work…… And I also have had 2486DAL6s working for years…

                    Insteon support stated to me that a couple of years back they ran into the problem when the 2334 first came out. After a lot of research, their engineers determined that there are only some LED bulbs that are compatible with the 2334-xxx dimmers… Those bulbs include (dimmable only): Cree, EchoSmart, UtiliTech, Feit Electric, GE and Insignia.

                    I have a number of problems with Insteon relative to this situation:
                    1) The original 2486DAL6 worked for years and supported the TCP 10BR30 dimmable LED bulbs (and others) that I have/had purchased. Why would Insteon remove that product from production, or replace it with an inferior product???

                    2) I have 23 Insteon dimmer switches (and keyboard dimmer switches) installed in my home and they are all controlling LED dimmable circuits, most of which have as many as 8 dimmable LED bulbs. This includes 30 spot light bulbs (outside), 24 sconce lights (inside & outside), and 19 ceiling lights. 73 Light total...

                    Needless to say, I have a small fortune invested in LED dimmable bulbs, and Insteon has now put me in a position where those bulbs may no longer be useful to me, and where I will need to dispose of good (expensive) LED bulbs, and spend more of my hard earned money unnecessarily because Insteon has replaced a product with one that is not comparable with its predecessor>>>

                    And that will mean that I will need to get out my 24 foot ladder to make sure each LED bulb in any circuit that requires an Insteon dimmer to be replaced (and I have 4 more to replace) and verify that all bulbs are compatible BEFORE I replace an failed dimmer… It also means that you, any user of the 2484DAL6 will need to do the same when it comes time to replace your dimmer switch..… And who knows, will Insteon do this again down the line???

                    3) From what I can see, Insteon, provided zero warning to its users, not on the sellers website, and especially not in a warning inside or on the 2334-232 packaging. What were they thinking??? How was I, or anyone else, to know that limitation with their product??? Do they have any idea how much time was spent in trying to understanding the problem and identify the problem….

                    In support of Insteon, they have agreed to replace the 3 failed 2334-xxx dimmer switches.

                    I do hope this information can be useful to others.

                    Peace, and God Bless.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kendropbox View Post
                      With all due respect Lilyoyo, if you do a search you will find that Insteon did have, and still does have, problems using the 2334-xxx with certain LED bulbs… Although the 2486DAL supported other LED bulbs, apparently some blinked on low settings and/or made noise. But they did work…… And I also have had 2486DAL6s working for years…

                      Insteon support stated to me that a couple of years back they ran into the problem when the 2334 first came out. After a lot of research, their engineers determined that there are only some LED bulbs that are compatible with the 2334-xxx dimmers… Those bulbs include (dimmable only): Cree, EchoSmart, UtiliTech, Feit Electric, GE and Insignia.

                      I have a number of problems with Insteon relative to this situation:
                      1) The original 2486DAL6 worked for years and supported the TCP 10BR30 dimmable LED bulbs (and others) that I have/had purchased. Why would Insteon remove that product from production, or replace it with an inferior product???

                      2) I have 23 Insteon dimmer switches (and keyboard dimmer switches) installed in my home and they are all controlling LED dimmable circuits, most of which have as many as 8 dimmable LED bulbs. This includes 30 spot light bulbs (outside), 24 sconce lights (inside & outside), and 19 ceiling lights. 73 Light total...

                      Needless to say, I have a small fortune invested in LED dimmable bulbs, and Insteon has now put me in a position where those bulbs may no longer be useful to me, and where I will need to dispose of good (expensive) LED bulbs, and spend more of my hard earned money unnecessarily because Insteon has replaced a product with one that is not comparable with its predecessor>>>

                      And that will mean that I will need to get out my 24 foot ladder to make sure each LED bulb in any circuit that requires an Insteon dimmer to be replaced (and I have 4 more to replace) and verify that all bulbs are compatible BEFORE I replace an failed dimmer… It also means that you, any user of the 2484DAL6 will need to do the same when it comes time to replace your dimmer switch..… And who knows, will Insteon do this again down the line???

                      3) From what I can see, Insteon, provided zero warning to its users, not on the sellers website, and especially not in a warning inside or on the 2334-232 packaging. What were they thinking??? How was I, or anyone else, to know that limitation with their product??? Do they have any idea how much time was spent in trying to understanding the problem and identify the problem….

                      In support of Insteon, they have agreed to replace the 3 failed 2334-xxx dimmer switches.

                      I do hope this information can be useful to others.

                      Peace, and God Bless.
                      With all due respect to your claims, I have used every single Rev of the 2334-222 including beta version (when they first released) successfully with leds. As stated with the many differences in bulbs it was not compatible with alot of mfg. That is still the case. As mfg. have improved their bulb designs (as well as insteon doing the same)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        And also with all due respect, Insteon Support told me, and sent me an email, stating that those listed bulbs are the only ones supported by the 2334-xxx dimmer (see above).

                        AND Insteon Support is sending me three new 2334-232 dimmers, to replace the three blown-out 2334-232 dimmers.. And why did those 3 dimmers blow out? The answer is: because I had a non-supported LED bulb installed… Bulbs that worked with the 2486DAL6, but not with the 2334 dimmers… AND, what information did Insteon provide to alert me, or you, to the LED non-compatibility problem???

                        And if you think about it, anyone who has working 2334-xxx dimmers that would need to replace a defective LED bulb, needs to be aware of the limitations of acceptable LED replacements… If one replaces an existing LED bulb with a non-compatible LED bulb, they may blow out the existing 2334-xxx. It is not just a matter of the non-compatible LED bulb not working in that circuit; it is a matter of the possibility of destroying a working 2334 if a non-compatible LED bulb is inserted… And removing the non-compatible LED bulb WILL NOT repair a blown 2334 dimmer…

                        Again, I have a small fortune invested in both Insteon products and LED bulbs, and I do not appreciate the lack of customer consideration relative to non-compatible product upgrades and replacements…

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kendropbox View Post
                          And also with all due respect, Insteon Support told me, and sent me an email, stating that those listed bulbs are the only ones supported by the 2334-xxx dimmer (see above).

                          AND Insteon Support is sending me three new 2334-232 dimmers, to replace the three blown-out 2334-232 dimmers.. And why did those 3 dimmers blow out? The answer is: because I had a non-supported LED bulb installed… Bulbs that worked with the 2486DAL6, but not with the 2334 dimmers… AND, what information did Insteon provide to alert me, or you, to the LED non-compatibility problem???

                          And if you think about it, anyone who has working 2334-xxx dimmers that would need to replace a defective LED bulb, needs to be aware of the limitations of acceptable LED replacements… If one replaces an existing LED bulb with a non-compatible LED bulb, they may blow out the existing 2334-xxx. It is not just a matter of the non-compatible LED bulb not working in that circuit; it is a matter of the possibility of destroying a working 2334 if a non-compatible LED bulb is inserted… And removing the non-compatible LED bulb WILL NOT repair a blown 2334 dimmer…

                          Again, I have a small fortune invested in both Insteon products and LED bulbs, and I do not appreciate the lack of customer consideration relative to non-compatible product upgrades and replacements…
                          I know the company and its employees (at that time) very intimately. That list was compiled from the bulbs they tested to give them the ability to steer customers to bulbs that definitively worked well with insteon. It was by no means a complete and all encompassing list. During the time that you spoke of, the revs that would have been affected is 7.0-7.3 so unless you received revs between those, this is a moot point regardless.

                          The fact that you state the keypads work with incandescent bulbs (Step 9 from a previous post) does away with your whole argument that the bulbs blew the 2334-xxx. If they were blown they would not work at all with the incandescent bulbs. Customer service swapping them doesn't imply they feel they are broken. It simply means they don't know how to proceed and swapping is the easiest way out of it in hopes that the new ones work.

                          We all have small fortunes tied to our systems. I have over 100 devices between insteon and zwave (along with many more bulbs) so I understand how you feel. With that said, no company can account for every situation and detail that is out there. There are hundreds if not thousands of stories about compatibility issues between dimmers and led bulbs on the internet that can be found with a 2 second internet search. Yes, we would love to have all information in front of us on a sales page. Unfortunately doing so can also cause information overload (which most people don't read what's there anyway). Unfortunately you had an issue with your particular bulbs/setup. That doesn't necessary mean there is an underlying issue nor will everyone have an issue. Especially if you are using a current dimmer which wouldn't even apply to what was said to you years ago as the current revs are different than earlier revs.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Here is a good rule of thumb when selecting a load to go with any switch. Know your load type and know the type loads your switch can dim.

                            Example: Insteon Is a forward phase (leading edge) / Triac based dimmer. If you look at the specs of the bulb and it say revers phase then it isn't compatible with the Insteon switch. This doesn't mean that Insteon can't dim LED's or CFL's, it can. This rule applies to every manufacture or dimmer switches. Pair the switch with the load that matches its spec. Personally I find it harder to find Loads Insteon doesn't work with.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ,
                              What you do not seem to understand is that the three 2334-232 that I initially installed, popped, flashed, and blew out... They were destroyed..

                              And anyone who replaces a burned out bulb, be it LED or not, with a non-compatible LED bulb, risks the chance of having their existing (and working) 2334.xxx destroyed also…

                              While you appear to believe this should be a normal business practice, to me, that is unacceptable

                              Comment

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