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Sunset & Sunrise +/- minutes

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  • #16
    What about the new Hub Pro? There's no documentation available yet. Will this hub be capable of sunrise/sunset offsets? Random times?

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    • #17
      Sunset and Sunrise should also be able to be assigned to more than one scene or device.

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      • #18
        There is no need to individually schedule device to turn on (or off) at the same time. Such device should all be members of the same scene since they all turn on (or off) at the same time.
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        • #19
          I agree with this thread, I'd like my outside lights to come on about a half-hour before sunset, and turn off a half-hour after sunrise.

          Better yet, also allow some randomization, e.g. +/- 15 minutes from the specified time, so that it doesn't look like there's a computer controlling everything.

          I have the outside lights on my porch and garage controlled by an in-wall switch that has a built-in timer with these features. I'd kinda like to replace those with Insteon switches but that would mean giving up the randomization and the offsets. It's funny how i have to choose between a computer-controlled home automation system (Insteon) or standalone light-switches from Home Depot that actually have the features that I want.

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          • #20
            There's software that can accomplish what you want. Also the ISY can do that. You can also wire a Micro Module to the timer switch.
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            • #21
              What software are you referring to?

              I'm not keen on spending $200 to make a new $50 automated dimmer do the same things as the existing $25 timer switch. :-) I realize that the ISY does much more, but my needs are pretty modest.... I just find it odd that a $50 Insteon switch linked to a $75 Insteon hub is still missing some simple automation features that came standard on a $25 standalone switch.

              Sorry to sound so negative.... I actually like Insteon quite a bit so far. I'm just two devices away from having all of my other stuff switched over to Insteon, and I'm going to be putting about 25 Z-Wave dimmers plus a few keypads on Craigslist next week. Insteon was much easier to set up and has been much more reliable.

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              • #22
                Irrespective of how it is implemented in the Hub V2, it must be quite simple and not demanding of hardware to have a value stored to adjust the sunset time and another to adjust the sunrise time. If this relatively simple approach were implemented in the V2, many of these users would find it better, and acceptable I am sure. I can achieve "30 minutes before sunset" by defining my location as 300 miles to the east of where I really am, but of course this also makes sunrise earlier than reality.

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                • #23
                  You get what you pay for. A person can't expect an eighty dollar device to perform like a more expensive device does. That applies to anything. If you buy the cheapest laptop, you can't expect gaming performance.

                  The hub is what it is. It is an entry level controller designed to allow people to get started with home automation at a low price point. For those who needs demand more, then there are other controllers for it. It would be nice if they were to invest the amount of time and money needed to provide many different features. However with a low price point and a no subscription setup for additional sources of income, there is no push for greater investment.

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                  • #24
                    lilyoyo, I agree and understand that they need to apply effort and resources to make things work. I would not bother with the sunrise/sunset if there was a way to use the dark/light ability of the sensor to activate a hub scene. Sadly, although it would seem like a basic home automation task, the Android app and hub v2 do not support it. My suggestion was to add a feature that does not require significant resources in order to satisfy some requests from customers. Predecessor products that are now unsupported could do this at a not much greater price point.

                    For sunrise/sunset offsets, an independent (not Insteon) Honeywell switch can do it with a price of $35 so I would have thought that a switch at $50 and a hub at $75 should have comparable ability. Unless one were to troll this forum before buying it is not clear about the current, significant gaps in what can be achieved with the Android app and the hub.

                    I like the Insteon things and will no doubt keep using them, but I thought that indicating an interest for a feature in this forum might help the company prioritise. Some have replied indicating that the hub has limited hardware, and I was commenting that I felt there were simple ways of implementing the feature without major resources being expended for development or used within the hub.

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                    • #25
                      I understand your point. On the flip side the 35 dollar switch was designed for a specific task and can't accomplish all the things an Insteon switch can. It all depends on perspective.

                      I don't know the full capabilities of the hub network. However whatay sound easy on the surface could involve more work than we realize on the backend for them. That coupled with all the requests for other things that I'm quite sure they receive may push this to the bottom. Especially when you look at the time that is involved with fixing current bugs, other 3rd party systems, camera additions, etc.

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                      • #26
                        Please add this feature! I was surprised to find that my new Insteon hub doesn't support a Sunrise/Sunset offset +/- X a number of minutes. Or even better, a random offset between X and Y minutes. Surely the Hub can handle a static offset. It's getting a different Sunrise and Sunset time each day.

                        My HCA home automation software can do this as can my ISY. I bought the hub to control automation in my summer cabin.

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                        • #27
                          I have been watching this thread and it is disappointing that the Hub can't handle a simple offset. It can't possibly require much in the way of compute resources.

                          As a workaround, I started playing with Stringify. It will integrate with the Insteon Hub and you can do the offset that way. Stringify now tells my selected Insteon-connected lights to come on 1 hour before sunset.

                          You can also have it randomize the time so it looks like you're home - something else the Hub should be able to handle.

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                          • #28
                            The Hub is meant to be a low cost introduction to HA. It's adequate for many users. Adding an offset to sunrise/sunset times is NOT trivial. Minimizing features is what helps keep the cost of the Hub low. If you need more features, then you'll have to purchase something more costly.
                            Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
                            MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
                            Both Stu's Views and MathLandia are free websites that do not sell anything.
                            Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

                            Please don't PM with questions that can be asked in a forum.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by stusviews View Post
                              The Hub is meant to be a low cost introduction to HA. It's adequate for many users. Adding an offset to sunrise/sunset times is NOT trivial. Minimizing features is what helps keep the cost of the Hub low. If you need more features, then you'll have to purchase something more costly.
                              Insteon needs to be careful here though...if they minimize the features so much, people will buy it...but then be turned off pretty quickly for simple things like sunrise/sunset offset. I still don't get it Even if the Hub doesn't have the hardware for it, why don't they use the cloud/their servers to perform the calculations and then simply tell my Hub to turn on the lights at the proper time? That's a rhetorical question as I don't expect an answer. If I knew enough about the Hub hardware, I'd probably find the answer anyway...but I shouldn't need to know...it should just work!

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                              • #30
                                Sounds good, but every enhancement costs. Even a small improvement can be relatively costly. The Hub is especially made to be a lowest possible cost entry-level device.

                                Here's a hypothetical example: Suppose it costs a penny to maintain a time offset (a made up cost). At 24/7 with only 5000 users, the annual cost would be more than $18,000. That doesn't account for multiple time zones nor more than 5000 users.

                                At two tenths (.002) of a cent a day with 10,000 users it's still more than $7,300 annually. That may no seem like much to you, but you're not paying
                                Stu's Views is Education and Fun. What do YOU want to VIEW today?
                                MathLandia High school mathematics learning fun.
                                Both Stu's Views and MathLandia are free websites that do not sell anything.
                                Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

                                Please don't PM with questions that can be asked in a forum.

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