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Appropriate Use for a Range Extender?

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    Appropriate Use for a Range Extender?

    My normal installation is about 20 Insteon devices with a few X10 devices left over (in outside outlet boxes). During Christmas I add almost a dozen X10 Appliance Modules for various Christmas lights inside the house. I know about degradation in X10 signal strength and see lots of random X10 changes when some Insteon device is used - but I can live with that just during the holidays.

    That being provided as background information, my problem is trying to replace an X10 Appliance Module located in my shed about 90' from the house, controlling yard light transformers. I'm using a 2635-222 On/Off module but it is not seen by my ISY994i run Insteon network. I first tried to auto-link it and ISY never saw it. I then tried to manually link it by entering the device address and ISY still never saw it.

    The closest dual-band Insteon device to the shed is a 2447D Dimmer module at the back door to the house.

    Will installing a 2992-222 Range Extender in the outlet below the 2447D Dimmer work any better? Shouldn't the 2447D be repeating the signal the same way a Range Extender would?

    My only other option might be to add a Range Extender in the detached garage that is between the house and the shed.

    I need this to work even during Christmas with all the extra temporary X10 modules.

    Thanks,
    Richard


    #2
    If the 2477D is mounted in a metal electrical box. Its RF range maybe much shorter, than the specified line of sight distance. As the antenna in it is on the back side and the range will be limited by the metal box.
    A Range Extender in an outlet may have a better chance of getting there. May depend on what is in between the two locations you want to cover.

    Comment


      #3
      Range Extenders and LampLincs have been reported as more efficient than wired-in devices. In any case, it's important that you ensure that the opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply are bridged as described in some dual-band device's Owners Manuals. Power line signal can often reach 90'. but RF cannot. A Range Extender (or LampLinc) in the shed may help.

      BTW, all HA device including both Insteon and X10 absorb some signal. Insteon devices repeat the signal, X10 modules don't.
      Last edited by stusviews; 12-15-2015, 10:37 PM.
      Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
      Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks! I'll try a Range Extender. At least I can move it around and perhaps find a location where it will help.

        I did install a phase bridge in the breaker box many years ago. I trust it is still there and still working.

        Comment


          #5
          Good. The hard-wired bridge ensures coupling. Adding dual-band devices will increase range and reliability of the Insteon network wherever they're placed.
          Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
          Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

          Comment


            #6
            Good..I like it.

            Comment


              #7
              OK, I installed a 2992-222 Range Extender in the garage ... my new ISY994 says it's an "Unsupported Device" but I am now able to reach the On/Off switch further away in the shed. Is the Range Extender truly a dual-band device repeater. One description says it's for bridging the two phases (using two of them) ... another description says it's for bridging power-line only devices to wireless-only devices. Does it really repeat both power-line and wireless signals? Its poor manual also says it's not compatible with SignaLinc devices whatever those are.

              The whole Insteon product line is extremely confusing with various generations, single band devices, dual-band devices ... for someone not in this business full time it's a daunting task to understand all the variations.

              Comment


                #8
                The Range Extender is used to receive and/or transmit Insteon power line and RF signals. It does not control anything nor can it be controlled, so there's no purpose to adding it the the ISY (even if you could).

                A purpose of Range Extenders is to bridge the opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply using RF signals. The Range Extender is also able to receive Insteon signals from wireless device and, in the case of the thermostat, transmit signals, too. Range Extenders repeat both power line and RF signals, as do all dual-band devices.

                SignaLincs were the original RF couplers. That was their only purpose. They did not communicate with wireless devices at all.
                Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
                Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

                Comment


                  #9
                  You also can't add the 2443 Access Points. That where replaced by the Range Extenders.
                  You would recognize a 2442 Signalinc if you saw one. It had an external antenna sticking down from the lower bottom of its case.
                  The Insteon White Papers may give you some added information.
                  http://www.insteon.com/technology/#documentation

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by stusviews View Post
                    Range Extenders repeat both power line and RF signals, as do all dual-band devices.
                    Sorry to dig up such and old thread ... I've been searching and searching and searching the internet though and this is the closest I've found to a straight answer on this subject, so I'm hoping to clarify 100% -

                    If I take an unused 2457D2 and plug it in half way between a motion sensor that is too far away, and the hub - it will bridge their communication when there is no wired connection between any of the three?

                    Or do I specifically need a 2992-222?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I prefer using devices that serve dual purposes rather than a singular use. The 2452d can be used to control lamps and extend the insteon network while the range extender only extends the range. Because of that, if I were in your position, I'd use the 2452d

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Using a module with the added features. Like On Off or Dimmer. Can be used as a Range Extender with load control.
                        The 2635-222 On Off Module can be used with or without any load connected.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          And it extends the range *wirelessly*? I think that is where all the confusion I'm seeing online and even in Amazon reviews is ... there is no powerline communication possible between where it is going to be plugged in, and where the hub is plugged in ... different circuits from the fuse box or something I guess, I don't know - but I know it doesn't work ... so for it to be of any use to me, it needs to repeat wireless signals it receives, wirelessly.

                          A lot of people seem to interpret "Range Extender" as "If it has a wired connection back to the hub, it acts as a remote wireless antenna" sort-of deal ... but I have no wired connection ... I need it to act as a "wireless repeater" basically.

                          The other option I am considering (aside from ripping it all out, throwing it in the garbage, and telling everyone to go back to using light switches - which is how angry it has had me more than once over the last couple weeks), is replacing a couple of the more problematic motion detectors with v2s, for the additional range/power they bring to the table - and even running wire to connect them to fulltime power, where possible, so they will act as repeaters for some of the others, if I understand their documentation correctly.
                          Last edited by Hyacin; 02-09-2018, 11:03 AM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by TFitzpatri8
                            Dual-band INSTEON modules work as mesh repeaters for both RF and power line devices. Doesn’t matter which band signals are received on, they are repeated on both.
                            Awesome, thank you so, so much! :-)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Hyacin View Post
                              And it extends the range *wirelessly*? I think that is where all the confusion I'm seeing online and even in Amazon reviews is ... there is no powerline communication possible between where it is going to be plugged in, and where the hub is plugged in ... different circuits from the fuse box or something I guess, I don't know - but I know it doesn't work ... so for it to be of any use to me, it needs to repeat wireless signals it receives, wirelessly.

                              A lot of people seem to interpret "Range Extender" as "If it has a wired connection back to the hub, it acts as a remote wireless antenna" sort-of deal ... but I have no wired connection ... I need it to act as a "wireless repeater" basically.

                              The other option I am considering (aside from ripping it all out, throwing it in the garbage, and telling everyone to go back to using light switches - which is how angry it has had me more than once over the last couple weeks), is replacing a couple of the more problematic motion detectors with v2s, for the additional range/power they bring to the table - and even running wire to connect them to fulltime power, where possible, so they will act as repeaters for some of the others, if I understand their documentation correctly.
                              You're over thinking things. Both the PowerLine and rf signals get repeated (the repeater is nothing but a lamplinc with the triacs removed). They do the exact same thing. Whether your wires are connected to the garage or not is irrelevant since the wireless signal is still sent. Due to environmental issues the wireless signal may or may not reach but that's another subject.

                              The answer to your question is to put an insteon plug in device in the detached garage halfway. It may help to have 1 in both the garage and at the location you are trying to get to as they both will be exposed which allows for better rf communication.

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