Can I use Hub to manage on / off based on sensor and time of day?

[titusc]

Hi I have the following use case and am not sure whether the Hub is able to manage or I need to use HouseLinc.
Scenario is for a bathroom which has the following:
Recessed Ceiling PIR Sensor - detects someone entering the bathroom and turns on bathroom ceiling LED.
Micro Dimmer - controlled by 2487S On/Off Keypad to turn on / off / dim bathroom ceiling LED.
Micro On/Off - controlled by local 2487S On/Off keypad to turn on / off vanity mirror's light.
Local 2487S On/Off Keypad - provides control of various bathroom loads such as bathroom ceiling LED, vanity mirror's light, fan, towel warmer, etc.
Remote 2487S On/Off Keypad - provides bed side control of bed room and bathroom ceiling LED.

The logic requirement for the bathroom ceiling LED is as follow and summarized in table below.
Daytime - LED is off at 0% output unless someone walks in at which point it'd be 100% output.
Evening - LED is dimmed to 10% output providing night light unless someone walks in at which point it'd be 70% output.

Can someone advise the following.
1) Is this all possible and no issues?
2) Can this be programmed entirely by using the Hub only?
3) If HouseLinc is required for initial setup, can the settings be transferred to the Hub and managed by the Hub?
4) If HouseLinc is required and Hub can't be used, does this mean HouseLinc needs to be running 24/7?
5) Has anyone tried using OpenHab with the PLM binding to manage something like this?

Time	Sensor	Wall Switch	Bed Switch	Result	Scene Name	Scene Trigger	Event Trigger	Event Condition	Event Action
Day	Off	Nothing	Nothing	0%	Day	Sunrise	NA	NA	NA
Day	Off	Nothing	On	100%	Day	Sunrise	Bedswitch On	Day Scene	100%
Day	Off	Nothing	Off	0%	Day	Sunrise	Bedswitch Off	Day Scene	0%
Day	Off	On	Nothing	100%	Day	Sunrise	Wall Switch On	Day Scene	100%
Day	Off	Off	Nothing	0%	Day	Sunrise	Wall Switch Off	Day Scene	0%
Day	On	Nothing	Nothing	100%	Day	Sunrise	PIR Sensor On	Day Scene	100%
Day	Off	Nothing	Nothing	0%	Day	Sunrise	PIR Sensor Off	Day Scene	0%
Night	Off	Nothing	Nothing	10%	Night	Sunset	NA	NA	NA
Night	Off	Nothing	On	70%	Night	Sunset	Bedswitch On	Night Scene	70%
Night	Off	Nothing	Off	10%	Night	Sunset	Bedswitch Off	Night Scene	10%
Night	Off	On	Nothing	70%	Night	Sunset	Wall Switch On	Night Scene	70%
Night	Off	Off	Nothing	10%	Night	Sunset	Wall Switch Off	Night Scene	10%
Night	On	Nothing	Nothing	70%	Night	Sunset	PIR Sensor On	Night Scene	70%
Night	Off	Nothing	Nothing	10%	Night	Sunset	PIR Sensor Off	Night Scene	10%

[stusviews]

The Hub is an entry level device and does not support conditions. If you want to create conditionals, then software or an ISY is the way to go.

[titusc]

This really is disappointing because I think the Hub is able to do 99% of the job, supports 230VAC where I live, and best of all it has the best stock interface among CasleOS, HomeSeer, OpenHab, ISY. But CastleOS, HomeSeer, and ISY are all off for consideration as they all depend on the Insteon PLM.

BLH mentioned something about a modified Hub or ISY device on the following thread. I'll investigate more and carry out the discussion on that thread.
http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-.../86113-openhab

[titusc]

stusviews, actually if we relax the requirement of having the light to turn on only to 70% rather than 100% during night time we may be able to do everything with just the Hub. I think the following are possible. Can you confirm if 1) & 3) are correct and advise on 2)?
1) Hub turns off lights after sunrise for day time and turns on lights to 10% after sunset for evening time.
2) When someone walks in the bathroom, the PIR sensor would act as a latching switch for the Micro Dimmer, triggering it to turn on 100% regardless whether it is 0% previously (day time) or 10% previously (evening time). Now the question is when someone walks out and the PIR sensor turns off, would the Micro Dimmer revert to the previous level it was at (ie 0% day time and 10% night time)? I think the resume dim feature is only for the case for the light to come on at a previous dimmed level, but not to go off to a previous dimmed level.
3) Remote keypads turns on / off (single tap) or dimm (press and hold) when used. The catch without using ISY is we can't program it to revert to 0% (day time) or 10% (evening time) when either the off (single tap) or dimm (press and hold) is triggered. It'd just simply go off to 0% and this is a shortfall we have to live with without using ISY that can handle conditions.

Thanks.

[stusviews]

1. That can be done.
2. No matter the state of the Micro Dimmer, the Motion Sensor wilt turn the light on to whatever you specified in the scene. When the Motion Sensor times out, the light turn off. The light will turn on again when motion is sensed.
3. Without a more sophisticated Insteon manager, a secondary button Off press can send only an off and Dim can send a dim command only.

[titusc]

2. No matter the state of the Micro Dimmer, the Motion Sensor wilt turn the light on to whatever you specified in the scene. When the Motion Sensor times out, the light turn off. The light will turn on again when motion is sensed.
3. Without a more sophisticated Insteon manager, a secondary button Off press can send only an off and Dim can send a dim command only.

So for 2) the problem is even if the Micro Dimmer was previously set to 10%, as soon as the PIR sensor detects someone having walked in and activate via the sense wire as a latch switch, the Micro Dimmer will turn 100% on and completely forgets it was previously at 10%. If this is the case can we work around this by setting a number of scheduled event to turn the light to 10% between the sunset and sunrise hours? For example, if the sunset occurs at 19:00 and the sunrise occurs at 07:00 T+1, and if we want the lights to revert to 10% with a maximum wait of 5 min we have (60 min / 5 min) * 12 hrs = 144 scheduled events? This should also solve the problem for 3) by enabling someone to turn the light full off from a remote keypad, wait for a max 5 min before one of the scheduled events turn it back on to 10%?

This is super ugly but I see no way around without a 230V 50Hz PLM available for the ISY / Indigo / CastleOS / OpenHab.

[stusviews]

I have no idea if the Hub is capable of that many schedules

[titusc]

Okay this inability of not being able to use conditional on the Hub is a very troubling issue. Any idea if this is something that can be supported in the future with a newer firmware (field upgradable firmware is one of the new things for 2245) or the hardware is so basic that it can't support this?

[stusviews]

The Hub is a low cost entry level device. The ability to process conditionals may be a basic task, but it's not easily implemented without driving up the cost (e.g., more memory, more processing power, more complex algorithms, etc.). If that's a requirement, then you need a more sophisticated Insteon manager such as software or an ISY.

[titusc]

stusviews okay if that's the case I'm happy to either see a more advanced model of the Hub (I really think the Insteon UX interfaces are superbly designed), or have a PLM that can support 230V 50Hz . But neither are available unfortunately.