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    Hub Pro device status - device turned on by other controller

    So since the Hub Pro can't yet replace Indigo I'm running both, Indigo mainly for schedules and a couple devices not supported by the Hub. Issue I'm having is if Indigo turns on or off a device the Hub doesn't know about it, so when I either issue a command via Siri it doesn't produce the result I want because it doesn't know the current state of the device or looking in the app the current state is wrong.

    I've tried linking my controller (2413U) with the hub through the manual process, it doesn't show up in the interface and I wouldn't expect it to, but it hasn't helped to keep the status in synch.

    I also have the same issue if I use a remote like the RemoteLinc (2440), the hub doesn't update it's status.

    Surely I'm not the only one who is trying to use more then one controller, or even a remote in their setup. Has anyone found a way to keep the hub in synch?

    Couldn't the hub send status requests to each device every 15 minutes or some user configurable time?

    #2
    I have exactly the same setup and the same problems including use of RemoteLinc. I bought the hub pro to replace my Indigo setup. However, since much of my system operation depends on lights triggered by motion sensors, I had no choice but to continue using Indigo since the hub doesn't support Insteon sensors. The lack of hub device status updates makes the system less reliable. I join you in requesting that Smarthome include status updates in the next firmware update for the Hub Pro.

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      #3
      Due to how controllers work it's not possible for your controller to update. Insteon devices only respond to the device that gave it instructions (IE:indigo giving on command). Since indigo issued the command, your device will report back to it only.

      When running multiple controllers, they are not aware of each other which is why it doesn't work the way you want. Apples servers are only updated when it issues the command

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        #4
        There's something seemingly wrong about this response. I have two Insteon hubs (standard and pro), but who cares what is where? If I tell Siri to turn on the back patio light, just send out the ON command. If it's already on, it'll stay on. If it was off, it'll turn on. Why should the hub assume it knows everything already? It's not like telling a switch that is off to turn itself off will damage anything. Again, this is something that should be improved upon.

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          #5
          Your device state is stored in Apple's servers which issues commands. If the command does not come from homekit then their servers do not update with the new state. When you use a different controller that update is not sent to Apple's servers. If your last command with Siri was to turn off, then Apple thinks it is already off so it will not send the off command

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            #6
            So does that mean that Apple's software is in need of an update? I really don't care who does it, but if I tell Siri to turn a light on or off, what's it to Apple whether or not it's already on? And in programming, they should know that Insteon products will inherently have this problem. Even if the Hub Pro was my only hub and I had no motion detectors, the beauty of Insteon is the ability to integrate automated technology into devices that can be operated from the switch on the wall. As an alternative, have the query go out after the status update. Under the scenario you describe, "Siri, turn on the chandelier," should result in HomeKit sending an ON command if off and no command if on. So do whatever the system thinks is appropriate, but follow that up with a device query to make sure it actually happened.

            In other words, anyone who thinks this behavior is appropriate should get out of this line of work. Those who stay: fix it. And I really don't care whether it's engineers at Insteon fixing it directly or someone at Insteon helping Apple's staff to understand the problem. Fix it.

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              #7
              An Insteon command is sent regardless of the state of the responder. If you send an On to a device that's already on, nothing will result, so there's no sense in adding to the complexity of the Insteon protocol.

              For example, I have a night off scene that controls nearly a hundred devices. The controller would have to be aware of the current state of all those devices, whether they were on, off or in the case of dimmers, their On-levels. That's a lot of information for a task that will do nothing for many of the responders.
              Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
              Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

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                #8
                I'm not saying it's right or wrong. However if you want to play in Apple's garden you play by Apple's rules. Insteon is not and should not completely rework how Insteon works for 1 system. No manufacturer would do that.

                Because it is Apple's servers issuing commands there is not much that Insteon could do unless they completely reworked how they do homekit which would then impact what users are currently able to do. Hue, Lutron, and Ecobee get around this by simply adding the chip to their systems. However, you cannot add other homekit devices to their apps. If you want the Insteon experience, then you should use the Insteon hub. If you want the Homekit experience then you have to play by apple's rules

                Comment


                  #9
                  Noted, but that merely identifies what needs to be fixed. If Apple is obstinate enough to refuse to consider reissuing unnecessary commands despite an example of why they would be useful, then Insteon needs to find a way to issue updates to the Apple servers when a device state changes outside of the HomeKit environment. And if this is really something that Apple should change (and it actually kind of sounds like it is), Insteon should be on their back about the flaw in their programming.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    It's not a flaw, it's by design. Apple makes the rules. As lilyoyo1 indicated, if you don't like Apple's rules, then play a different game. I accept Apple's rules for some products, but for HA my choice is the ISY, not Apple.
                    Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
                    Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You have to realize that homekit is not for Insteon only. It's for a variety of disparate mfg. While I am quite sure that it can be done, you have to look at Apples position to saynis it worth it to them financially.

                      Apple wants you to use their system the way they envision. As the end user, you have made the decision to use it outside of their parameters. That is not on them. This applies to anything you use. If you go outside the intended use, it's not up to any mfg. to make it work for you

                      Comment


                        #12
                        This topic is actually very timely for me. I just realized a few weeks ago that the reason why my hub pro controlled devices only sometimes responded to home kit (mainly siri) commands... it is because the device changed state via Insteon control, and thus homeKit thought the device was already in the state I wanted to change it to and it did nothing. So this thread seems to be confirmation.

                        At first I was thinking that this is simply a problem (as a few have said) because I have two hubs... and that transitioning everything to solely be controlled by the hub pro would fix the problem. However, I then realized that any device I have that is controlled via Insteon communication will always cause this problem (ie, an Insteon light bulb that is a responder to an Insteon switch controller).

                        So now I am trying to figure out how the Insteon team really intended for the Hub Pro to work? Surely they know the limitations of HomeKit. I know nothing about the HomeKit API, but I wonder if there isn't some way for the hub pro to force a status update of a device to the HomeKit "cloud" (which it would do any time it saw an Insteon command with that device as the responder).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          It's no Insteon that determines how the Hub Pro works, it's Apple.
                          Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
                          Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by stusviews View Post
                            It's no Insteon that determines how the Hub Pro works, it's Apple.
                            Oh, quite the contrary. Insteon absolutely determines how the Hub Pro works. The Hub Pro is a combination of hardware/firmware/software that Insteon developed and sells. What you might mean to say is that Insteon doesn't determine how HomeKit works. To that point I fully agree. So what you can see I am trying to determine is if Insteon can change or improve their use of Apple's HomeKit API to make the Hub Pro product function as a customer would intend.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Insteon has to comply with Apples rules.
                              Message from Forum Admin: stusviews passed away in April 2018. Stu was a huge fan of Insteon and a huge presence on both the Smarthome and Insteon forums, helping thousands of us along the way (he had nearly 20,000 posts to his name). We thank him for his contributions, dedication, and passion for making the Smart Home a reality. He will truly be missed.
                              Saving energy is not always free. Be a world saver.

                              Comment

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