iOS 10 Incorrect and or "No Response" Status in Home App

[cchiera]

Having created this thread a long time ago unfortunate there has been 0 progress in this. Spent months trying to help Insteon with the issue. At first they denied the issue but eventually confirmed it but had still been no updates to their app in well over a year. I don't use the Insteon app and only use the home app. Setup by clicking the buttons on the devices but the no response still shows on all devices and off shows the wrong status. Having spent 3k+ very frustrating. With the mounting 0 ratings on amazon and everywhere unfortunately the future does not look bright. I think eventually the dropping sales will be unable to ever resolve these issues and we will all have to start from scratch with the new provider unless they are bought out. Sadly currently there is no one who offers the same type of hardware that looks so seamless and customize able and Insteon. Hoping in 2017 Nest or Apple enter this market to give us an alternative.

[flmmkr]

Yes it is very frustrating that the company that makes these devices can't make a hub that works properly with it, and at the same time they are the only company that makes a system like this that can control so many things. When I contacted Insteon about this I asked about being a beta tester and was added to the beta program, just to find out that there's been no beta testing of anything since 2015 and no one can say when there will be something to test. So I switched to the ISY completely and got that to interface with HomeKit via Homebridge on a Raspberry Pi that costs much less than the Insteon Hub Pro. That would be my recommendation to anyone that wants to have Insteon devices working 100% and also HomeKit integration. The ISY also allows you to backup your configuration and resync devices if they stop working or need to be replaced. Insteon can't do that with their own Hub and I've wasted many hours setting up my system all over again when their Hubs have failed.

I'm selling my Hub 2 and Hub Pro, and Insteon wired thermostat. Since I won't have any Insteon hubs I won't be able to beta test for them, but I'd rather have the 100% working system I have now that actually has more capabilities than my system did before. I have the Ecobee3 thermostat which is much better than the Insteon thermostat and have also now been able to integrate my alarm into HomeKit because of switching to Homebridge.

[ha2020]

I'm also disappointed on the lack of support getting the "no response" fixed. I'm sorry that I invested in 25+ Insteon wall switches and dimmers that I'm stuck with. I've replaced all my 10 Insteon plug in switches with HomeKit plug in switches, and next is to replace the Insteon plug in dimmers with Lutron models, or wait until Leviton comes out with their HomeKit models shortly.

[richaree]

A business doing something will generally work within the confines it is presented with. An open source project done by users generally can and will do things a business is unable to.

Insteon (being an official partner) has to abide by apples rules. They cannot simply do whatever it is they want to do. The same with UDI and Indigo. Since they havent signed up to be partners and pay the fees associated with that, they cannot simply do what they want. Doing so means an unofficial setup which can and will cost them long term as they now need to pay a developer to keep up with changes that could break the connection as well as support time for customers that could have issues that may be beyond their control.

Its no different than a car. If you wanted to sup your car up with 3rd party products, you would take it to an outside person since the dealer wouldn't touch it.

[flmmkr]

I understand what you're saying. The problem is that the licensed product (Hub Pro) that Insteon has given us does not work as it's supposed to. There's no arguing that. This is mostly because Insteon has failed horribly to update the firmware and apps for the product. And it's really different than your car analogy. If I buy a car and it does not operate as it's supposed to I can take it to the dealer and they will fix it and make it operate as it's supposed to. And there are certain modifications you are able to do to a car with 3rd party parts that will not void your warranty and the dealer will still work on the car.

[richaree]

Insteon can only add what Apple allows them to add as well as have the hub operate the way apple wants. Insteon in itself it much more capable within its own ecosystem far surpassing what home allows since Insteons vision is not the same as Apples vision. If something is broken within the hub, yes it should be fixed. However when it comes to how things operates, unfortunately that comes down to Apple creating that ability. Can it be done? Of course. However a 3rd party person working outside the system does not have the same constraints as someone who has to work within the system

[flmmkr]

I completely disagree with you here. It's not Apple's fault. Because Insteon has not updated the firmware or app since Apple updated iOS and HomeKit, Hub Pro has not worked properly. And it appears to have had a lot of issues prior to that. Some were fixed with firmware, maybe some weren't. It still shows that things can be fixed with firmware. Also, there are other HomeKit hubs for other systems that work properly. Insteon's Hub Pro does not. There are even apps that work better with the Hub Pro than Insteon's own Inteon+ app. That is not Apple's fault. It's Insteon's. If Insteon is going to sell a product they should make sure it actually works the way it's supposed to. Otherwise they should provide refunds and stop selling the thing.

The fact that I have a different (essentially) hub (whether licensed or not) working with the same Insteon devices and the same iOS version, shows how it's not the fault of Apple's system, it's the fault of Insteon failing at making their equipment work properly within Apple's system. It shows that it's possible to have these devices work within Apple's framework with no issues. The framework is sound. Apple provides the framework, and it's up to Insteon to make their equipment work properly within that framework. As that framework changes, updates are going to be necessary. Insteon is completely failing miserably to provide those updates.

Insteon in itself it much more capable within its own ecosystem far surpassing what home allows since Insteons vision is not the same as Apples vision.

Again, I'm going to completely disagree with you here. Just compare the Hub 2 to an ISY. The ISY is much more capable and can do things that Insteon is unable to do with their own Hub. Things like adding devices simultaneously, configuration backup and restore, device replacement, device restoration, and more. All things that Insteon should be able to do with their own equipment, yet they are unable to. Actually the overall reliability and performance of an ISY are far superior to Hub 2. Even within their own ecosystem Insteon is unable to accomplish what you would expect them to. Instead it's a 3rd party that's bringing a much more capable hub to the market to provide more capabilities that Insteon really should be able to do themselves, but for some reason can't. Maybe Insteon doesn't have the programmers, engineers, and technicians capable of doing what needs to be done.

[stusviews]

Apple does dictate what SH can and cannot do. The ISY, although considerably more powerful (that's an understatement) than the Hub is not an Apple device nor is it Homekit compatible. MobiLinc can and does bring the ISY to iOS devices such as iPhones.

[flmmkr]

I mentioned the ISY in that last post as an example of how Insteon is unable to create or provide a product at the level that it should. No one knows the Insteon products and technology better than Insteon, yet it's 3rd parties that are creating the better products to control and integrate them. This is with the ISY, Homebridge, Indigo, etc. Why? Saying Apple won't let them is not the answer, because Insteon has demonstrated their inability with the Hub 2 vs ISY, which has nothing to do with HomeKit or Apple.

There's a difference between dictating and having complete control. There's no reason Insteon can't make changes to their product to work with HomeKit and stay within Apple's guidelines properly. Other companies do it with their systems, and 3rd parties are able to do it with Insteon's devices.. Why can't Insteon? For all we know, the only reason Homebridge isn't licensed is because the developer hasn't bothered to try licensing it. For all we know it could be made into an actual product.

[richaree]

Comparing a 129 dollar product designed for a very specific task to a 300 dollar product designed for a completely different market is like comparing a chromebook to a high end alienware gaming computer. Both were designed for completely different things.

Homebridge isnt licensed because the fees apple charges and because it doesnt meet there requirements for approval. As ststed before, an unofficial channel can do things that an official person cant do. (In some cases its vice versus)

The ISY, Homeseer and other were designed for conditional logic hence there code was written to allow you to do certain things.

The hub and hub pro were designed for a different market. Specifically with the hub pro, it is capable of much more. However Apple wants everything going through homekit itself. The hub just acts as a gateway to do that. Their intentions are for younto use homekit. Whrn it comes to differences between systems and the hub pro, those other systems are much different than how insteon works without the capabilities of Insteon.

For some examples, hue lights are just bulbs. Much easier to work with than a system such as insteon that can be controlled from hundreds of different devices hundreds of different ways. The same with thermostats. The caseta system actually runs into the some of the same thing. Due to the differences in design of their app (you cant add 3rd party stuff to it outside of thermostats) they can do things the hub can but are missing some features of the hub

[flmmkr]

You're completely missing the point. Obviously a $300 product is going to be better than a $129 product (most of the time). However, your figures are way off. ISY994i is currently $220 with PLM and the Hub Pro is $150, so they aren't that different in pricing ($70 vs $170 that you're saying). The point is that Apple may be able to dictate certain things, but they don't have complete control. It's Insteon's product line. They are selling a product that currently does not work as it's supposed to. Much of the HomeKit functionality with it is broken, from adding devices, getting status info, and control, from both iPhone and Apple Watch. It's never worked properly. They should either fix it or stop selling it and give us our money back. I'd rather they do whatever they need to do to fix it, even if that meant it wasn't a HomeKit licensed product. At least it would actually work. I'd pay more money than the $150 they charge now if it worked.

[richaree]

Actually Apple does have control. This is eactly why more companies have not put out products and it took so long for the ones that have.

While it is Insteon's product line it's still Apple's garden. They can still say what toys someone can bring in to play with. As the old saying goes my house my rules.

What apple requires is the exact reason why you have to use a 3rd party solution in order to use homekit with the ISY, Homeseer, Indigo, etc.

[flmmkr]

You're wrong. You need to learn more about what HomeKit is and what the requirements are. All they need to do is use Apple's required security chips and submit the product to Apple for certification, as well as have the product manufactured in a certified factory. As long as they meet the security requirements and implement the framework per the specifications it can be MFi HomeKit certified. That's all there is to it, along with a typically 3-6 month wait for certification results. There are limitations within the HomeKit framework that limits certain functionality (such as interfacing with keypad A,B, C, and D buttons, some sensors, and certain other devices), but that's it. If HomeBridge is able to interface with the HomeKit framework to work faster and more reliably there is no reason at all that the Hub Pro can't if it's firmware is coded properly. All of that functionality is built into HomeKit. If it wasn't there and wasn't possible then HomeBridge wouldn't work. But it is there, and the Hub Pro should be able to interface with it, but for some reason Insteon is unable to get it to do that properly.

The Lutron hub works, whereas the Insteon hub does not. Look at the online reviews for the Lutron hub on Amazon. 4.5 stars with the negative reviews being mostly from people who didn't realize it was for Lutron Caseta only and someone who thought it would work with all their devices that work with Alexa. Then look at the reviews for Hub Pro on smarthome.com. Abysmal 2 stars... because it doesn't work well.

Hue bulbs still contain a switch, which isn't much different than an Insteon SwitchLinc. They are both switches. It's just that one is in the bulb itself and the other is a device you essentially connect to a bulb and install in a gang box.

Why are you so easily defending Insteon here? Do you not want a Hub Pro that actually works?

[stusviews]

Although Apple doesn't rule, they do make the rules. No matter the manufacturer, there are no-zero-nada keypads for standard lighting (e.g., incandesecent, LED, CFL. fluorescent) that are Homekit compatible.

[flmmkr]

I know that. I didn't mention that to imply that the support needed to be there. In fact, there's really no reason for support for those keypad buttons to be in HomeKit as they act simply to control other devices that would already be set up in HomeKit anyway. For example, the buttons on a keypad I have set up to control my fans. In HomeKit all I have to do is set up the FanLinc. Same goes for setting up the buttons for controlling scenes. All you have to do is set up those scene within homeKit. So there's no reason to have button A, B, C, D set up in HomeKit.