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  • Synchronizing 2 Serial PLMs

    I have an older 2412S PLM I want to synchronize with a 2413S PLM. Basically, I want to copy the link table in the 2413S to the 2412S so I can use the 2412S with an ISY994i. Is this possible with HouselLinc? If so, how? IDoes the ISY 994i itself support the import/export of PLM link tables? Thanks.

  • #2
    I don't think that can be done.
    Even if you could most of the Links would have the incorrect six digit ID from the original 2412S. As each PLM has a different six digit ID
    The ISY994i can not import a Link Database from another PLM.

    The 2412S will work with a ISY994i but it uses slower memory and processor. It may have issues with speed.
    Do you know if the 2412S has the original 417 size Link Database in it or the later >2000 Link Database size?

    You may also want to ask in the UDI Forums if you have not done it yet.
    http://forum.universal-devices.com/index.php

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    • #3
      Create an ISY backup. Swap the PLMs. Restore the PLM. Battery power devices need to be updated separately, one device at a time. You cannot then simply swap PLMs. You need to go through the same procedure each time if you want to swap back, But, I'm not sure why you want to swap a newer PLM for an older one for the same reasons BLH gave.
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      • #4
        I'm working with a pair of PLMs and believe me they don't make it easy. I'm doing this because I have one PLM hooked to a Raspberry Pi and another one for HouseLinc. The Raspberry Pi application does the normal control, status tracking, timers, scenes, etc. I use HouseLinc mostly to manage links.

        For this to work every device has to have a relationship with BOTH PLMs.

        The worst part about it is really that the protocol is weak. I like insteon a lot but it's missing a couple of really critical features to allow you to develop good clean software for it:

        * One would think that you could do a layered software approach where insteon is one layer, and PLM is a layer beneath it. Nope. They're intertwined. I'm not saying it should be a full 7 layer OSI stack or anything like that -- but having a clean break between layers helps you have clean implementations. As the protocol stands there's really no way to avoid such mess.
        * Acks are a particularly bad problem. The protocol doesn't identify what's being acked, so you have to keep track of what command you sent and try to line them up yourself. That in itself would be OK if there were some kind of serial # or something, but there is none. The only real choice is to keep track of the address you sent the request to and match those up.

        All if this is somewhat workable until you have two masters on the network. At that point, the ambiguity leads to edge-case problems, especially during long operations (like link table synchronization).

        Protocol design is always a compromise, especially in the case that you have low data rates and short messages. Insteon is a pretty big step up from X10 but the protocols involved have always felt like they were just a series of patches on top of X10. The security model is interesting but most of the time it's just a pain my ___, the lack of dual-band devices is disappointing, and 3rd party / open source development support is essentially nil (and insteon does not seem to care that supporting a robust, open development platform is how you create technology advocates and grow your business).

        Sorry that's not a great answer but the long and short of it is that what I did is to maintain my own list of links push it to all my other devices manually. It can be done, it's just painful.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by BLH View Post
          I don't think that can be done.
          Even if you could most of the Links would have the incorrect six digit ID from the original 2412S. As each PLM has a different six digit ID
          The ISY994i can not import a Link Database from another PLM.

          The 2412S will work with a ISY994i but it uses slower memory and processor. It may have issues with speed.
          Do you know if the 2412S has the original 417 size Link Database in it or the later >2000 Link Database size?

          You may also want to ask in the UDI Forums if you have not done it yet.
          http://forum.universal-devices.com/index.php
          Thank you BLH

          The 2412S PLM I have was a 2412N SmartLinc (failed daughterboard replaced with one from a PowerLinc 2414). It has the large link database. I also had a 2413S that became unreliable after several years as a PLM for my Elk M1 alarm panel and decided to use the 2412S for that. Turns out that the problem with my original 2413S was degradation in some of the electrolytic capacitors in the switching power supply. I replaced them with larger valued caps (like those in new 2413S PLMs) and the unit works fine.

          I have been unhappy with the reliability of a Hub2 installed at a vacation home and am planning to replace it with an ISY994i. The 2412S can power the ISY directly and will make for a cleaner installation there. Hence my interest in copying the PLM database. The ISY backup/restore process suggested by Stu's Views should work.

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          • #6
            There is an 18 page post on the UDI forums.
            On the 2413S PLM failures and how we fixed them.
            The most important thing is C7 and C13 should be designed tor switching power supply use.

            http://forum.universal-devices.com/t...-supply-fails/

            A few of my oldest 2412S PLMs had the 2414S Serial Daughter boards in them. RTC battery and IC along with the bigger capacity memory.
            Side note. The 2443 Hardware Revision 2 are also on the base 2413 board and also have the capacitor issues. I repaired two myself.

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